Anyone Else Work With WC Pencils?

[Nancy]

I just started doing WC pencils and CP mixed media paintings. I've become frustrated with the paper wrinkling on me. It seems it doesn't matter what kind of paper I use, it still has that effect,a nd I don't use much water at all. I use wc pencils on 140 lb watercolor paper, and it still wrinkled. I like mixing the two together, but I hate the wrinkling effect I always get. Is there anyway to stop this? Am I doing something wrong?

Also, I have never used watercolor before, so I have no clue what I am doing. I followed tutoprials first, but when I tried to do some on my own, it really came out bad. Does anyone have any or know of any tuts online? I know there are some books out there with tuts in them, but I've bought so many art books lately, I really can't buy anymore at the moment.

Any tips and pointers would be greatly appreciated!! :D

[Elankat]

I've dabbled a little bit with watercolor pencils, but never did too much with them. I have a couple set of Derwent watercolor pencils & they just seemed too hard to use dry. They also didn't lay down much color. When using wet, I just decided that I like watercolor better.

For your paper, unless you are using 300 lb watercolor paper, you'll probably want to stretch the paper if it will be getting wet. You'll want to soak it in water, smooth it onto a board or other rigid surface. Then, staple or tape it down.

There really aren't any tutorials at this site, but the best site that I've found for watercolor info is http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/water.html

I've found that the good paints and good brushes make all the difference when working with watercolor. As for working with watercolor pencils, there is a book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/158180119X/104-6876742-8376723 but I don't know of any tutorials.

[DanaD]

If you buy the Arches 140lb cold press w/c paper blocks, you won't have to deal with the wrinkling. They stay flat no matter how much you douse them. Just be sure to let the paper dry before you remove it from the block.

I like the 140lb cold press because I do like the texture to come through in my work.

[Arlene]

the problem is for most cp artists the cold press is too rough if being used along with regular colored pencils...but if you search you can find blocks of hotpress wc paper too.

[ladybug]

Sure, Nancy, I love to combine WC and regular (oil based and wax based) CP's. I wouldn't really call that Mixed media. They are both CP's. Just, one is water based. I say this, because you should be able to enter a piece in the CPSA Nationals that is done in that combination and consider it 100% CP's. Anyone disagree? I'll sure appreciate knowing if I am wrong here. Now, my own work IS actually most often Mixe media. I generally combine pen and ink with CP's (all three kinds).

I ws going to also suggest as I see Elankat did, that if you have already purchased a lot of this 140# WC paper, that you just stretch it the good old fashioned way. Use some Masonite Board. Go to the lumber yard and just ask them for a piece the dimentions you want. A little bigger than a half sheet? Or, do you prefer to use full sheets? Whichever, have the board cut abotu 2 inches more all around. As she said, soak the WC paper, then smooth it out on the board IBTW, keep that board surface nice and smooth in between uses, don't use it for anything else that might scratch it up). After you smoth the nicely soaked paper on the board, then use some2" wide paper tape. Cut it the lengths you need, going beyond the paper, of course. Then,runit through a container of water real quick, getting it 100% wet. then, quickly spread it 1/2 over the paper and 1/2 over the board beyond the paper. Use a wet sponge to wipe up the excess glue from the tape, to take care not to get it on the WC paper. Do this on the opposite side next. take care the WC paper doesn't buckle. Smooth it again if needed. (I start, BTW, with the longest sides first, myself, then the shorter sides)Don't fret if there is a little buckling, though. Let the whole tig dry thoroughly. tere you are, ready to paint. You don't have to worry abotu it buckling any more because it can happen, but, the tape will stay tight on the board and when you are done with your painting, you again let it dry and when it does, your paper will be shrunken again and nicely taught.

More detail than you needed? LOL, my middle name is detail. Sorry.

If you have NOT purchased a lot of this paper, I was going to suggest as did the others I see, that you get a watercolor Block. I prefer them over stretching the paper ona board. I am from the age before they made blocks. I like several brands of blocks for different reasons. If I am going to use CP's too, I prefer something like an Arches WC paper that is 300# Hot Press, thats cause I like a slight tooth for CP work (I burnish, mostly). SLIGHT tooth, I say, not Cold Press with a course tooth.

I recommend you also try Crescent Watercolor #115 Hot Press Board. It has a 100% rag, watercolor surface paper that is Strathmore. The only thing I don't like abotu this board is that the backing is indeed, NOT archival. So, eventualy, probably within 10 years even, the acid will start coming through that wonderful surface paper. :bangin:

So, in recent years I have been turning more to using 300# to 400# Strathmore Illustration Board. I'd say it more like a "Hot Press" wc surface, not really too smooth. My technique requires some minimal tooth tothe paper. Anyhow, this board has the substance to it that I like and it is 100% Archival. VERY nice board! I admit, there are many I still have to explore, though.

Well, girl, does that help any? Did you make it through?

Another time, I have some help for you with the WC pencils and that streakiness you mentioned as well. At least I think I have.

Happy painting Nancy. :bye1:

Ladybug

[Arlene]

They are both CP's. Just, one is water based. I say this, because you should be able to enter a piece in the CPSA Nationals that is done in that combination and consider it 100% CP's. Yep, you're 100% right on that.

[PaintedHorses]

This is on acid free mat board, using Derwent watercolor pencils.

The Derwents are quite dry and hard when you use them, light pressure is all that is needed, and I used a small round brush with just a bit of water to dampen the pencil. It was amazing how the color came out.

[knelson315]

My background is in watercolor, and even I had a bit of a rough time using the WC pencils at first. Here's how I use them.

Paper: I use Arches 300# hot press paper. I know, expensive, but it's what I'm used to. It's very smooth, but has an amazing amount of tooth. I don't pre-stretch it - just cut it to size and tape it down.

Pallette: I then make a "palette" of CP pencil paint - I use either a textured acitate or canvas paper pad, and just scribble a patch of WC pencil onto it. I then dip my brush in water, dab it on a cloth (too much water is what causing the warping), and pick up paint as if I was using regular watercolors.

To mix colors on the paper, I very lightly wet a small area that I want to work on, and then 'paint' into it with the pallette method above.

Anything more substantial than that: I just paint directly with my regular watercolors, then use CP over the top (my favorite method - but not considered pure CP).

I have also had limited success using WC pencil methods on Stonehenge - but keep in mind that there is not as much sizing on that paper - it's not necessarily made to take much moisture, so you do have to be more careful. It also changes the texture a bit. One thing that I really enjoy doing on Stonehenge: If I have an area of a piece where the white holes are showing through and bothering me, I'll use a quick wash of WC pencil right over the top, and the holes disappear. This is particularly helpful in images that I am creating as logos, etc., and know they will be highly reproduced and really need a solid field of color.

I'm actually getting ready to try that technique on a black stonehenge piece I'm working on - a baby lying on a blanket in the dark - the blanket is in the foregroung, and I want it to be more grounded. I'm going to wash over the blanket in the highlighted areas with white WC pencils to fill in the holes on the highest highlights. I'll let you know how that goes!

[Bob Ebdon]

I don't have too much experience of w/sol cp, but a couple of points people have raised I can endorse. I have seen very recently someone using the Arches 140lb block, cold press, and was quite impressed with it. It certainly didn't cockle, and took the pencils well. Conversely, somone else used some Arches 140lb hot press with dry pencil, and it was horrible - skiddy, wax accumulations, not layering at all. I hope this was just a bad sheet, as I bought 5 sheets of it. My favourite paper - before stonehenge - was Fabriano classico 5 HP - besides being pure white, this 300lb paper took everything I threw at it. This has become scarce recently though. Lovely giraffes Paintedhorses! I am not keen on the ordinary Derwent w/c - they give what seem to me to be quite milky washes, lots of body colour in them. I can thouroughly recommend the Derwent Signature w/sol pencils though - some great colours, pure pigments so pure washes, and lightfast guaranteed. The way I have used these in the past is similar to many here - to make w/sol underpaintings that fill in the peper valleys with solid colour. It is amazing how much this speeds up the process of producing cp paintings, but maybe you lose some of the subtlety of colour given by lots of layers?

[lene]

Hi
I don't know if it's fair to reply to this post as my answer is mainly "no", but then - I haven't given up on the watercolorsoluble cp. ;)
I actually have found them very difficult to use compared to ordinary cp's. But I bought a book about them : "Watercolor pencils step-by-step by Pat Averill, Barbara Benedetti Newton and Debra Yaun, they show you can make some pretty paintings with this type of cp, so I am going to give them another try ...
I have caran d'ache Prismalo and Derwent pencils.

BTW Paintedhorses: the giraffe drawing is so lovely ..

[knelson315]

Conversely, somone else used some Arches 140lb hot press with dry pencil, and it was horrible - skiddy, wax accumulations, not layering at all. I hope this was just a bad sheet, as I bought 5 sheets of it. My favourite paper - before stonehenge - was Fabriano classico 5 HP - besides being pure white, this 300lb paper took everything I threw at it.

The hot press paper works best AFTER an application of water (i.e., water color or water soluble pencils). The sizing has been softened, and it is then fairly similar to Stonehenge on the surface (in my experience).

Art Media out of Portland, Oregon carries Fabriano products - check out their website

www.artmedia.com

[Nancy]

Thanks everyone for your wonderful advice and comments!!! I have currently put aside my wc/cp painting and am working on several portraits (both human and pet) that I will hopefully enter in several upcoming exhibitions. But, I will come back to the wc pencils eventually. I really need to get a good artist set of them though. I just got a cheap set to try them out.

[cjoant]

Hi Nancy
I have used Watercolour Pencils a few times and rather liked them. Mind you I am a rank amateur and found using the pencils and a brush so much easier than doing a watercolour painting! I would put a pix of it in here but I am not sure how to do that!
I did use them on Cartiera Magani Acquerello 280gm/m it is a block and 100% cotton heck even watercolour paints work on it a bit better than the sStrathmore paper I was using!
I used them dry and then used a brush with water and blended over the colours a bit I did like the result
Cheers
Joan

[Ivy]

Yupo is a fun paper to play around with watercolors pencils as well.

Just a fun head of cabbage,

Prisma Watercolor Pencils on Yupo, 4x5:

http://home.comcast.net/~ivysvine/ivycabbage.jpg

:) :) :)
Ivy

[Colleen_Brown]

I really enjoy using water soluble pencils. My faves are the Albrecht Durers for their intensity and granulation as opposed to other brands I have used.

This is one piece completed largely using the pencils with some tube paint also.
http://colleenbrown.com/images/coloredcornsml2.jpg
"Watercolored Corn" 14 x 10 approx.

Closeup showing how the entire line drawing was done using a water soluble pencil so that I could completely erase it with water if desired or leave it intact.

http://colleenbrown.com/images/coloredcornclose.jpg

I have others I will have to dig up but all in all I love the versatility of these pencils. Glad to see others that like them also.

Colleen

[bmac]

I bought some Prismacolor watercolor pencils over a year ago and have never used them. I'm going to a workshop with Pat Averill next weekend with my CPSA group and look forward to learning how to use them. I'll let you know how it goes. :)

[Colleen_Brown]

I bought some Prismacolor watercolor pencils over a year ago and have never used them. I'm going to a workshop with Pat Averill next weekend with my CPSA group and look forward to learning how to use them. I'll let you know how it goes. :)

Beth, Pat is a wonderful instructor and very giving. I took her class at the CPSA Dallas Exhibition. I know you will enjoy her class. Have fun.

Colleen :)

[Elankat]

Conversely, somone else used some Arches 140lb hot press with dry pencil, and it was horrible - skiddy, wax accumulations, not layering at all. I hope this was just a bad sheet, as I bought 5 sheets of it. ?

I'm afraid I've had that trouble with Arches 300 lb. when I was using it for cp with a watercolor underpainting. I didn't soak it first and had a HORRIBLE time in areas where there was not a watercolor underpainting. The cp wasn't layer and was flaking off. I think it was due to the sizing.

[llodercpart]

Just a note.......

Last June our local chapter (DC210,SF) had a workshop in Napa with Sharon Teitjen Pratt on watercolor pencils. She has some fabulous work that she has done with watercolored pencils. We learned a lot and it was fun.

She likes to Albrecht Druer by Faber Castel. She also recommended that we get some Fabriano- Artistico Soft Press Super White Watercolor paper in 140# and also 300#. This paper has a wonderful surface. It is somewhere between hot press and cold press, not as slick as hot press can be and not as bumpy as cold press. I really liked it. You can get it from Daniel Green and I got one sheet in San Francisco at Pearl Arts, that was all they had.

She showed us a couple of techniques with a brush. You use a small paper plate with a coating and scribble (no pun intended!) some color on the plate. Then you use a wet brush to pick up the color. Since I had tried to do washes and got messes, this little idea helped me get washes that I like.

I hope this is helpful.

-linda :D :D

[Arlene]

Isn't Sharon a great instructor? I took her class two years ago in Brea at the CPSA Exhibition. I will have to try her method because I haven't liked other methods with the wc pencils. I'll let you know. When I do a wc underpainting i find I like to use the hp fabriano, but will take Sharon's advice and try the soft press...hmmm, more things to try and play with. Will I ever get done experimenting? NAHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

[nina]

I bought some Prismacolor watercolor pencils over a year ago and have never used them. I'm going to a workshop with Pat Averill next weekend with my CPSA group and look forward to learning how to use them. I'll let you know how it goes. :)

Hi,
I will be looking forward to what you have to say about WC pencils after your workshop.
:D

I paint alot with gouache (opaque watercolor) on 300 lb. paper (hot and cold press).

I have always wondered about using WC pencils but never gave them a try.
;)

[llodercpart]

I don't know if this is the same paper or not, Bob. But Fariano Artistico is Fabriano Uno with a new (old) name. That is very confusing but when you are 700 years old you can pretty much do what you want!!

I lost Fabriano Uno and recently came across this information. I am delighted I do love the soft press, extra white. They will send you samples if you email them too.

Linda

[marcclarke]

I don't know if this is the same paper or not, Bob. But Fariano Artistico is Fabriano Uno with a new (old) name. That is very confusing but when you are 700 years old you can pretty much do what you want!!

I lost Fabriano Uno and recently came across this information. I am delighted I do love the soft press, extra white. They will send you samples if you email them too.

Linda

Linda,

Thank you for the information. Which Fabriano Artistico paper surface do you suggest for use with watercolor pencils, please? :confused: Cold press? Hot press?

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/online/4216/art-supplies/7

[Debee]

Coleen love the look of the corn. Please give us some more examples. I have used wcp very little, but love this look you have achieved. In particular using them as your drawing tool to show or not to show.

[llodercpart]

Linda,

Thank you for the information. Which Fabriano Artistico paper surface do you suggest for use with watercolor pencils, please? :confused: Cold press? Hot press?

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/online/4216/art-supplies/7
Go down a few posts and you will see a post about a workshop we had here in CA. There it talks about the paper. It is only in large sheets as far as I know. Not everyone carries it, I got some at Pearl and Dick Blick has it too.

Good luck, once you use it you will be spoiled.

Linda

[marcclarke]

Go down a few posts and you will see a post about a workshop we had here in CA. There it talks about the paper. It is only in large sheets as far as I know. Not everyone carries it, I got some at Pearl and Dick Blick has it too.

Good luck, once you use it you will be spoiled.

Linda

Found the thread. Soft press. Thank you. I will try some. Right now I am using Arches Cold Press and Arches Hot Press with Cretacolor Aqua Monolith water-soluble pencils. I have been having a terrible time. The first breakthrough came when I read that I need to wet the Hot Press paper and then let it dry. This wetting does something wonderful to the sizing, allowing the pencils to get a "bite".

I found some Stonehenge paper in sketch pad form. My pencils love it dry, but adding water is not a happy experience for the light paper weight.

Soft Press. Do I want to pre-wet it and let it dry or is it ready to go as is?

So much to learn, so little time. :blushing:

[llodercpart]

Soft Press. Do I want to pre-wet it and let it dry or is it ready to go as is?

Hi Marc

I do not wet it first, but I will try it. I haven't done that. If you do before I do, let me know how it works for you???

Thanks
Linda :D

[Greg]

I've got a set of watercolor pencils coming next month for my birthday. I'm really excited to try them. I'm guessing from reading above that Stonehenge will not work, is that right?

[llodercpart]

Isn't Sharon a great instructor? I took her class two years ago in Brea at the CPSA Exhibition. I will have to try her method because I haven't liked other methods with the wc pencils. I'll let you know. When I do a wc underpainting i find I like to use the hp fabriano, but will take Sharon's advice and try the soft press...hmmm, more things to try and play with. Will I ever get done experimenting? NAHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Hi Arlene-
I'm sorry I totally missed this post. Yes, Sharon was wonderful and having her for the whole weekend was fun. Such a sweet person. She did textures, watercolor pencils, flowers and several more projects that she had us work on. I picked up lots of tricks from her.
BTW, when she uses the wc pencils, she scribbles a good amount of pencil onto a paper plate and uses a brush to apply it in some instances. This certainly makes it easier to use for washes and big areas.

I shared your idea for keeping your work protected and mobile with my group, they loved it. I use it now too.
thanks
Linda

[Hezzy]

Greg,
I usually end up using WC paper, Arches most of the time when I have something special in mind. Otherwise I just use my WC sketch block.

[Greg]

Greg,
I usually end up using WC paper, Arches most of the time when I have something special in mind. Otherwise I just use my WC sketch block.

I am hopping up and down. I just can't hardly wait to try them out.

[Hezzy]

Are they here already?

[Greg]

Are they here already?

I'll get them this month for my birthday. I'll be 29....... again

[Hezzy]

YEAH! RIGHT!... NOT!

[Greg]

Well, actually I'm celebrating the 15th anniversary of my 29th Birthday.

[Greg]

I went back and found this thread. I've noticed that since we moved, last November, I'm having trouble with my paper buckling. It will buckle if I use turps, or most recently with WC Pencils. It is so frustrating because I like the effects I can get with WC Pencils, but the paper ruins the piece everytime. I've tried many papers since we moved, but get the same results. I've used Strathmore, Stonehenge, Canson MT, Bristol Smooth. The only thing I've been able to use is Crescent Illustration Board because it is so thick. I don't care for the surface of the illustration board though.

I've come to the conclusion that part of the problem is my set up in our new house. I have an art room, with three huge windows. I suspect that the humidity level is higher than at the other house, when I drew on the kitchen table.

[bmac]

Greg, Have you tried Watercolor paper? In the workshop that I took we used a watercolor paper that was pretty thick. I will try to find the sample later and see what it is called.

[Greg]

I'll have to give it a try Beth. I've shyed away from it in the past because of the rougher texture.

Greg, Have you tried Watercolor paper? In the workshop that I took we used a watercolor paper that was pretty thick. I will try to find the sample later and see what it is called.

[Arlene]

Greg get hotpress watercolor paper which has a similar texture to stonehenge.

[bmac]

Greg, In the workshop that I went to, we were told to bring a hot press watercolor paper (like Arlene says). More specifically we were asked to get Fabriano Artistico. It comes in 140lb. sheets and 300 lb. sheets that are nice because they do not have to be stretched or taped down to prevent warping. I sent an email to savoir-fairre and asked for some samples and they did send me some.

[Katydid]

hi greg - i tried them once, i used hot press arches 140 lb. i didn't stretch it. i worked with dry pencils on dry paper then blended the color with a just damp brush. it stayed flat no problems at all. i use regular cps over it, but clould have done the same with the wcp. the ones i have are dewernt which are harder like their regular cp which is why i used the prismas on top.

[Bill C]

I use waterclor pencils all the time, primarily as an underpainting. In fact I've used them for every piece since refuge from the storm last year . I like Wallis sanded paper, I've tried wc paper but dont like it as well, unless using ONLY wc pencils. Wrinkling paper is nothing new, you have to wet and stretch it like wc artists do.

[ex-limey]

Hi Arlene! Hope the Book is going good! I have a question for you... Is it okay to use water with watercolor pencils as an undercoat for CP work for an entry to the International CPSA Show? On the Application form it states that everything must be 100 percent CP. I have never seen anything printed about using water. I know you can use turpenoid with CP, but I have not seen anything pertaining to using water with Watercolor pencils and I have avoided using them in my entries.
Jean

[JanG]

Jean, I was going to ask about w/c pencil also. Is it considered watercolor or colored pencil? Is it w/c when you use water and c/p when you use it dry?

I have a feeling it wouldn't be accepted by either the c/p society or the w/c one! But, there seems to be such an overlap in the media that it's difficult for a novice to draw the line of acceptability. And what about the Inktense pencils? Are they considered ink or w/c or c/p?

JG

[knelson315]

My understanding is that as long as it's 'colored pencil' - it's allowed in the CPSA show - wet or dry.

[Bill C]

My understanding is that as long as it's 'colored pencil' - it's allowed in the CPSA show - wet or dry.


yes that is correct, you can use wc pencil but NOT water colors LOL. The piece I entered last year had a wc pencil underpainting.

[Brenda]

I use watercolor pencils quite a bit with colorfix. I haven't had any problems with the paper buckling. I've not tried it with any other paper.

[JanG]

Thanks for replying, everyone. I'm not planning to enter any shows but it's nice to know what is allowed and what is not. It really is confusing to know what media your art is supposed to be when you use colored pencils but not "normal" colored pencils!

Jan