Carnival 1 WIP

[caulfield]

I named the thread carnival 1 because I plan to do a bunch of these. This was completely inspired by the winning piece "Diner's Delight" by E. Michael Burrows from the CPSA show.

This is just the photo I manipulated in ps so far. I merged two photos together trying to make a more dynamic composition. So the question so far is "What do you think of the composition?" The lettering at the top is not straight - I think I am going to draw it that way instead of straighten it. To me it passes the thumbnail size test - what do you all think?

[lene]

Hi
I think the image has a fantastic contrast and lovely bright neon-colors :)
I didn't think of the lettering not being straight, it fits in I think
What media do you plan to use ?

[Arlene]

the lettering is straight...photos get distorted...this one bowed a bit. personally i'd prefer not cutting off the lettering or cutting it a bit lower. otherwise depending on how you do it, it can be a good picture...but don't lose sight of your focus

[Toni]

Hey Nicole!

Did you have a good time with the rest of your time in Chicago?

I understand what it's like to be totally inspired by someones work. The inspiration is something we all need to act upon when it's there.

My only concern here Nicole, is that this piece appears to similar to Michael's "Diner's Delight", to feel totally original to me. I would hate to put so much time and effort into a piece that was so much like someone elses piece they had such success with. Maybe a differnt POV, or focal point would take care of the similarity.

Just something to consider. Especially if your thinking of using this as an entry for next years CPSA show.

Good luck with it

TJ

[caulfield]

Thanks for the input guys! :) I started it and will put it in the colored pencil forum. :)

Toni - My focal point is totally different from E. Michael Burrows - it is the transaction and the people outside of the stand. Plus I think my work looks totally different from his. I am not planning on entering it in CPSA, unless I feel like it is my best at the time I am entering. I'm just doing what I am inspired to do. :) Thanks for your concern. :) I plan on doing a bunch from the carnival - I got some good ones of the game stands too. :)

Nicole

[Arlene]

Hey Nicole!

Did you have a good time with the rest of your time in Chicago?

I understand what it's like to be totally inspired by someones work. The inspiration is something we all need to act upon when it's there.

My only concern here Nicole, is that this piece appears to similar to Michael's "Diner's Delight", to feel totally original to me. I would hate to put so much time and effort into a piece that was so much like someone elses piece they had such success with. Maybe a differnt POV, or focal point would take care of the similarity.

Just something to consider. Especially if your thinking of using this as an entry for next years CPSA show.

Good luck with it

TJI do have to agree somewhat. Looking at Michael's HERE (http://cpsa.org/GALLERY/WINNERS2005/Burrows11.jpg) and yours. Yes it's a different viewpoint but both have the same general look. Honestly I'd expect the viewpoint you're sharing now to be part of a series that Michael would be doing.

[caulfield]

I do have to agree somewhat. Looking at Michael's HERE (http://cpsa.org/GALLERY/WINNERS2005/Burrows11.jpg) and yours. Yes it's a different viewpoint but both have the same general look. Honestly I'd expect the viewpoint you're sharing now to be part of a series that Michael would be doing.

I really feel a bit squashed by these comments. I went to a carnival myself and took several shots - this was one I liked and I plan on doing more. It is completely made by me. I never said I was going to enter it in CPSA and even if I did, I would completely be warranted to do so.

It is the same subject and they are both at night, but I have done similar scenes before. http://www.nicolecaulfield.com/coffeeshop3.htm Even though it is not a carnival - the people are seen at night through a lit up window. So you could say Mr. Burrow's painting looks like something I would have done. Actually I was inspired by http://www.artic.edu/artaccess/AA_Modern/pages/MOD_7_lg.shtml Nighthawks by Hopper - so maybe that one is not "original" to me either.

As far as my carnival picture being from the same point of view as Mr. Burrows - it is straight on from eye level (well if you are 5' 2") so there is nothing unique there. Actually, his is the front of the stand, mine is the side. His doesn't have people outside, mine does. There is interaction between the inside world and outside world or people. I really don't think they have the same general look - but everyone is allowed their own opinions.

So you two just think I'm not original, that's ok, I guess. The same could be said for some of both your work. Macros of flowers have been done and done and how about candles in the dark - I've seen that in a book. I don't mean to pick on you guys, but I just wanted to show that you both have been inspired by people and the same could be said about some of each of your work.

[lily]

I have to agree with you, Nicole...........Wow, just look at the CPSA award winners. There's quite a few colored glass bottle paintings-not to mention pears---and from the same view point!!!
Su

[Rose]

IMacros of flowers have been done and done and how about candles in the dark - I've seen that in a book.

I have to agree with Nicole here... if I wasn't inspired by others' work, then i probably would never get started. How about a cherry theme, or grapes? Still lifes of fruit and flowers? Jan Kunz comes to mind here. I think Nicole's work stands alone. The style is different and all her own :-) I hope you can enter it in CPSA! YAY! :clap:

[Toni]

Before someone takes this thread off on a tizzy..... :annoyed:


Nicole when was the last time I simply gave you a pat on the back? You get plenty of those here and at wc, you don't need it from me. I have always given you an honest C&C, the reason being pats on the back don't encourage you to step back and take a look at what your doing. Nor does it encourage you to grow as an artist.

My comments were ment for you to step back and take a look at your work, to make sure you made it your own. Evaluate what your doing and do it the best you can. In doing that you should have a successful piece that is truly yours, not merely a piece someone would look at and say... "oh look she did a piece like Michaels"

But whatever.

how about candles in the dark - I've seen that in a book. maybe you have, I haven't. You show it to me.

[Rose]

Toni,

no tizzy going on here! ;) I'm done with my tizzies! :-) :D

The book I have with candles in the dark is in Cecile Baird's new book, Painting Light in Colored Pencil. It's an awesome book, Arlene referred it to me a few weeks ago. It has an outstanding WIP of how she does her candles in the dark. The piece is very similar to the WIP you did, but then different too because of your style. If you get a chance to browse the book, you'll see :-)! Actually, when I received the book, I wondered if that's where you got the inspiration to do your candle painting. :-)

[Toni]

Toni,

no tizzy going on here! ;) I'm done with my tizzies! :-) :D

The book I have with candles in the dark is in Cecile Baird's new book, Painting Light in Colored Pencil. It's an awesome book, Arlene referred it to me a few weeks ago. It has an outstanding WIP of how she does her candles in the dark. The piece is very similar to the WIP you did, but then different too because of your style. If you get a chance to browse the book, you'll see :-)!


Oh interesting. Would that be the same book that came out AFTER I started my piece?

[Rose]

I received the book in July, so I don't know when it came out. Just commenting that the candle painting reminded me of your WIP when I saw the book. My point is that there are differences to both but also similarities. I'm sure that Cecile didn't get her idea to do the candles in the dark from your WIP and most likely it is a theme that inspires many people... just like hot dog stands, carnivals, flowers, still lifes, pears and cherries. I surely wouldn't email Cecile and tell her that she should have picked a theme that was different from Toni's. It's just another interpretation.

I do agree you pat everyone on the back, and often... so hope you don't take this the wrong way. :-)

[caulfield]

I honestly wasn't upset at what you wrote Toni. I disagreed with what you thought, but I am fine with the fact that we disagree. & I did step back and look at it and I know I can make it different and mine. Now when I did get upset (& possibly a bit too much - but hey I'm human too :blushing: ) is when after I disagreed, Arlene had to make that comment. I do have to agree somewhat. Looking at Michael's HERE and yours. Yes it's a different viewpoint but both have the same general look. Honestly I'd expect the viewpoint you're sharing now to be part of a series that Michael would be doing. Now, not only am I not supposed to make one that looks like Michael's, but now I can't do one that Michael MIGHT do. That seems ridiculous.

That book came out in April, so I had no idea if you saw it or not, but it does illustrate that subjects, viewpoints etc. will inevitably "be done," and that noone owns them. Also, just for the sake of this conversation, how would things from the reference image library fit into originality. Someone else conceived it, laid it out, lit it, and photographed it, but we all still say the end result is our own. I even saw one year that a piece made from the ril at wc made it into the cpsa show (a coffee jar and beans).

I'm sorry I spatted back - but I still believe everything I said.

[artfulscribe]

As they say, there is nothing new under the sun. It's inevitable you're going to seem themes repeated, and unless you're setting out to make a forgery, you can't but help leave your own original mark on it. If you don't believe me, look back at the history of art for goodness sake. There were Impressionists who set up their easels side by side and painted the same scenery. Each were inarguably masterpieces in their own right. We should embrace that spirit...that belief that every artist has a unique vision no matter what the subject. Maybe the end result won't be to "our" liking, and perhaps the subject seems to us a little tired, but let's not lose sight of the fact that this is merely our opinion!

Forget the Impressionists...since CSPA was mentioned, I can think of quite a few examples in the past of still life after still life involving beautiful flowers in cut glass vases displayed against lace-draped tables (or substitute fruit for flowers...) Two very well-known cp artists come to mind, actually. I'd give my eye teeth to have either one of their works up on my wall, and I don't think you'd find too many people holding the similiar subject matter against them. For those willing to look, the differences are clear enough.

I'm not taking sides or anything, here...I just wish everyone could get back to doing what we do best...supporting other artists 'choices.' Don't have to love the work--I'm all for honesty--but we should at least have a little faith that the artist has a reason for doing what they're doing.

This is really none of my business, of course, but I guess the day I saw Nicole being criticized for not being original enough was the day I needed to step up and say something...that's just crazy talk, people. ;-)

Roxana

[Bob Ebdon]

I thought that to be considered a cp artist it was COMPULSORY to do your marble picture, your cut glass with fruit picture, your bunch of grapes picture and your bottles picture. You didn't get certified until you had done these basic manouevres.

Yes Nicole, there are similarities between what you want to do/are doing and Michaels picture. IMHO this should not stop you doing it. It is obviously not copied, it cannot be said to be a derivative work. It will not be in the same style - yours will be looser, more atmospheric, softer. Yours may remind people of Michaels work. It reminds me of Degas. Go for it.

[brynmr]

Hey Nicole!

Did you have a good time with the rest of your time in Chicago?

I understand what it's like to be totally inspired by someones work. The inspiration is something we all need to act upon when it's there.

My only concern here Nicole, is that this piece appears to similar to Michael's "Diner's Delight", to feel totally original to me. I would hate to put so much time and effort into a piece that was so much like someone elses piece they had such success with. Maybe a differnt POV, or focal point would take care of the similarity.

Just something to consider. Especially if your thinking of using this as an entry for next years CPSA show.

Good luck with it

TJ

Toni, look at the works of the photorealists for example. Many such a Ralph Goings, Tom Blackwell and Don Eddy not only worked is a style that at first glance one could not differenciate but they also painted similar subjects such as planes, cars and bikes. I've seen a ton of vase and flower drawings all executed in a realist approach and no concerns there and rightly so.

I would hate that any of us would seriously entertain the thought what future judges in a CPSA exhibition might think of what we're doing now. That would be a shame in my opinion.

[CarrieLLewis]

What is it some literary person said? There are only seven basic story lines in all of life and every writer who has ever written has had to write about one of those seven? (Personally, I can't think of seven and I do write ... sometimes ... but that's a whole 'nuther story ... oops! No pun intended.)

I'm a horse artist (mostly) and a portraitist, no less, so I start out with a limited number of ways to capture a subject (left profile, left three-quarter, full face, right three-quarter, right profile). There are a ton of very good portrait artists and a lot of us are all members of the same group.

Yet people visit that website and gravitate toward one artist over another. Why, when so many horse artists do portraits and all work within the guidelines above? Because of the way each artist handles the subject, the medium, etc.

As an appreciator of most kinds of colored pencil art and subjects, I can say that I am equally impressed by Michael's diner portrait and by what Nicole is proposing (and working on, I believe). Are they similar? Yep!

Are they unique?

Yep!

I don't need to delineate the reasons and won't go into that here, but as an artist coming from a field in which everyone does the same subject by nature and because they love it, I can truly understand why Nicole would be drawn to this image. (Yikes, there's another pun!) Look at all that great color, for goodness sake! Wow! And light, too.

Some good points were made all around and I'm glad I stopped in. It certainly gives me a fresh eye toward my own work, how I portray horses, what images I gravitate toward and how I might work to make them unique and truly mine in the future.

Thanks!

And did we ever get any compositional discussion on this? Why it works, for instance?