1880 Driver Composition

[CarrieLLewis]

I visited the composition forum earlier this evening to see what types of questions are asked and how helpful the answers are. I was encouraged by what I found and decided to go ahead with my original intention of posting a proposed project for some composition guidance BEFORE getting into the painting stage.

So among the first things I read was Lahree's post about Zoe and Arlene's statement that she wasn't going to do compositional work for those who were not beginners and that they should do some tinkering on their own, present the results, THEN expect a discussion. :cool:

So, back to Photoshop I went! I set up a transparent screen with a Golden Mean set up and another one for the Rule of Thirds. Then I copied and cropped, copied and cropped, cropped and copied... It was so tedious and time consuming that I took a break to do put the wash into the dryer and to start dishes.

I ended up with seven different compositions and already have a favorite, but I want to see what sorts of discussions result.

I should probably warn you that this isn't a horse! :eek: I'm also a train chaser and we have an old steam engine in a city park. This summer, I took some macro shots of the drivers (the large, main wheels). The composition as a whole appealed to me through the lens and I liked the photograph, too, so I've decided to try my hand at something that's ferrous equus instead of flesh and blood equus.

Here are the first three. The first one is the original photograph.

[CarrieLLewis]

And here are the last four.

I know I said this process was a bit boring, but having spent about an hour on it, I can say it's time better spent here than spending hours later on trying to fix something or all the wasted time if the image didn't work and I ended up abandoning it.

[Rose]

Carrie

What patience you have!!! I vote for number 6 (5 and 6 were a toss up!). Most of the other photos brought the focal point near dead center or was too bright and takes over. I'm definitely NOT the expert here, but this is what I remember about the rule of thirds and golden mean... that as long as the focal point is in one of the four intersections, you're okay!

This is a great closeup of the locomotive... you should do a series! ;-)

[marilyn h]

This one is the one I choose. More eye appealing to me. Am I right Arlene?

[CarrieLLewis]

Rose,

Thanks for voting! Once I got a transparent screen with the red gridwork set up for the Rule of Thirds, it was a simple matter to crop the original photo in different ways and place it behind the screen. The real challenge was finding ways to crop and size the photo so that there were distinct differences in the compositions.

Marilyn,

Thanks. I looked at them again this morning and find I still like the one I liked last night, after my mind was sufficiently boggled by all that cropping!

One thing I've already learned is that it's a lot easier to go through all of this now rather than try to figure out why a painting isn't working after a lot of time has been put into it and I may (or may not) be attached to it!

[Lahree]

What do you want to be the focal point? that will help on deciding which one I vote for! :D

[Roses]

I like #5 the best. It seems to bring out the lit portions of the center shaft the best. Number 6 is too cropped on the left side. It just doesn't feel as balanced to me. The other 4 don't seem to bring out the lit portion as well as #5 does.

[Arlene]

can i see the photo without the lines? also when you say you cropped and then put all under the grid did you change the grid size to fit the picture? the grid will change depending on your measurements. also none of these grids follow the golden mean. they're all in thirds.

[Gemma]

Carrie,

I'm going to give this my best.... now remember I am just not that greatest at composition.:) The first thing that occurred to me with this is the focal point (at least to my eye) seems to be in the middle of the picture. My eye is drawn to the lightest part with the most contrast which is smack dab in the middle. I would think it would be better to move that area to the right on the picture. I think that's why arlene was asking for the total reference so she could figure out what would be the best composition and not have the focal in the middle. I could be all wet here..... just thought I would jump in with my 2 cents worth.
Gemma

[Bob Ebdon]

I don't think you have been bold enough with your crops Carrie. The pictures you present are really only very slightly different, and I think it needs more drastic action to get a good composition. For me the focal point should be the brightly lit nut that you have more or less central in the last picture. I would like to see that nut where the red lines intersect top right as we look. This will mean you have to crop some of the top of the picture - I'm not good enough with PS to show you what I mean I'm afraid.

[lene]

Hi Carol

At least your image has to do with HORSEPOWER :dance2:

I have a difficult time seperating your compositions ( I mean they are posted so close). I find the motif very interesting and looking forward to see what composition you choose.
Perhaps starting out with the help of 2 L-shaped cardboards moved around directly on the photo to define your choise of "cut", will save time on the PC ;)

[CarrieLLewis]

What do you want to be the focal point? that will help on deciding which one I vote for! :DLahree,

The focal point will be the big end of the main rod and the crank arm.
:D

Clear as mud, right?

The focal point is highlighted below.

To be honest, what really attract my eye in this is the combination of lights and darks and the lines running forward and backward, up and down. I am also well enough acquainted with the mechanics of this machine to know how they function, what they sound like and all of that, so seeing them in repose is sort of fascinating!

[CarrieLLewis]

can i see the photo without the lines? also when you say you cropped and then put all under the grid did you change the grid size to fit the picture? the grid will change depending on your measurements. also none of these grids follow the golden mean. they're all in thirds.Arlene, the original photo is attached.

My grid, which is the rule of thirds, is 600 pixels in width. The original photo was 600 pixels. Every time I cropped, I made the photo 600 pixels in width, then copied it and pasted it in behind the grid. PhotoShop automatically centered it vertically. Does that make sense?

I deliberately chose the Rule of Thirds. Would I be better off to use the Golden Mean?

[CarrieLLewis]

Lene,

Actually, it's faster to do things this way (on the computer) because I can crop away as much (or as little, Bob!) as I like, save all the versions and view them side by and still have the original untouched!

The images did post close together, but the images need the white space added in Photoshop because the forum system automatically places them once they're uploaded!

I'll work on that!

[CarrieLLewis]

Bob,

Here are a couple of 'more adventerous' crops on this composition.

Arlene,

I used the Golden Mean grid instead of the other.

Lene,

I think the white borders I saved are helpful, yes?

Thanks, all!

[lene]

Hi Carrie
Yep, easier to seperate the files now ;)

As said earlier I think it could be a very interesting drawing. Do you prefer the very square-like cut for this motif ?

[Bob Ebdon]

Hi Carrie,

Please don't take me as gospel on any of this, as you know I am not great on composition - or much else! I am getting to understand the rules though - but IMO some of the best pictures I have seen dont follow the rules and thats the bit that I haven't got a handle on yet! The crop I came up with puts the two light nuts at the two sweet spots near enough whether you go thirds or GM. There are still things wrong with it though that you would have to fix - the very light nut top left corner for instance. See what everyone else - and most importantly you! - think.

[Arlene]

I deliberately chose the Rule of Thirds. Would I be better off to use the Golden Mean?in this case, yes.

[Arlene]

if you want that light area to be the focal point, then you put it in the golden mean. not near it. ;)

[Rose]

I agree Carrie... this looks great! Pulling up a chair! :-)

Hi Carrie,

Please don't take me as gospel on any of this, as you know I am not great on composition - or much else! I am getting to understand the rules though - but IMO some of the best pictures I have seen dont follow the rules and thats the bit that I haven't got a handle on yet! The crop I came up with puts the two light nuts at the two sweet spots near enough whether you go thirds or GM. There are still things wrong with it though that you would have to fix - the very light nut top left corner for instance. See what everyone else - and most importantly you! - think.

[CarrieLLewis]

...As said earlier I think it could be a very interesting drawing. Do you prefer the very square-like cut for this motif ?Lene,

I don't really know. A square composition seems inherently static, in my opinion. Some of the best horse art I've done has been in rectangles with a 2:3 or 3:4 ratio (the short side is 2/3 or 3/4 the length of the long side) or higher. One of my least favorite (and non selling, by the way!) images is just about square and has a pony standing still in the dead center. Yikes! I don't think I'll ever sell that one! It just doesn't go anywhere literally or figuratively! Consider it a lesson learned, I suppose.

Bob, I, too, have read about artists who have learned the rules so they know how best to break them. One thing I found with this composition was that attempting to position varies options for focal point in the sweet spot cost me something else where. I don't have much of an option for eliminating details, either. This will be a technical piece and the people who look at it will know what parts are missing. When it comes to trains, and especially steam locomotives, those rail fans know what should be where and what it should look like. Since that's the market I see, I will need to keep that in mind.

Having said that, I think my answer to Lene may solve the problem you pointed out, i.e., that brightly lighted shape in the upper left hand corner. Taking something off the top would eliminate that.

Arlene, after doing the last two compositions with the Golden Mean and not the Rule of Thirds, I can say that I liked them both better than my previous two favorites. I didn't think it would make much of a difference since the grids for each of the two systems aren't that far apart.

[CarrieLLewis]

Okay, back to PhotoShop and three more compositions (five, actually, but two of them were so bad, there's no sense wasting your time!).

This time, I positioned each of three potential focal points in one of the sweet spots by the Golden Mean.

By the way, I've learned that this crank assembly is actually called an Eccentric Crank. What do you think, Lahree? Is that a pretty title or what? I may very well be an eccentric crank by the time this is all said and done! :D :p

[CarrieLLewis]

I see the focal point on that first one isn't very focused. It is the area that's in the upper left sweet spot, the small triangle formed by three separate shapes. That area, if it's the focal point, will clearly need to be emphasized with lights and darks.

The other two options are such natural fits, though, that I thought I'd better explain that one. Actually, as I think about it, maybe I'd be better off just abandoning it!

[Roses]

I wouldn't abandon it. I really like this one.

[Arlene]

use mine...lol...i don't like the vertical ones because the whole comp really movesw better as a horizontal

[CarrieLLewis]

I wouldn't abandon it. I really like this one.Rose,

I was talking about abandoning one of the last three designs. It wasn't working at all.

I'm looking forward to giving this unusual subject a try, I even have a piece of black rising Stonehenge set aside for it and possibly a second one.

[CarrieLLewis]

use mine...lol...i don't like the vertical ones because the whole comp really movesw better as a horizontalArlene,

I don't like the vertical compositions, either. For me, the initial fascination was the combination of lines and angles moving back and forth, up and down across the image. For the most part, the upper portions of the original photograph add little or nothing to the composition I am looking for.

Neal did an interesting thing with the original photograph and I'll show you that. He tinkered with color, too, just for fun.

I have to admit, I like this one. Even the color is interesting.

[Arlene]

that definitely puts a different feel to it.

[CarrieLLewis]

that definitely puts a different feel to it.Yeah, it does. It sure has a lot of appeal, too! I can see a lot series of these, ala Andy Warhol!