Still Life Comp Questions

[artmasters]

Hi everyone,
I'm posting my still life wip here untill I figure out what to do with my background. It has been suggested that my background is a large empty space that is visually dead. I've had several ideas as how to fix it. But before I post any thumbnails of possible "fixes", I want to ask why this first picture works. The title is Vanitas. It is by Dutch painter Pieter Claesz painted about 1634. His composition is similar to mine. He uses a diagonal line that splits the painting in half leaving a large "empty" space. But, IMO he used color to make his space "alive". In my composition, The diagonal splits the painting in two also. My very first plan was to use color to add life to the dead space. I have worked on the background a bit more since my last post in the cp forum. Do you think the color is working to breathe life into the background? Please let me know what you think.

Dave

[Katydid]

Dave do you a photo edit progam? if so mirror your drawing, then look at the 2 side by side.

the thing i noticed most when i did that was the differences in lights and darks.

i am out of my depth here. it is only an observation of what i see as a difference.

i am sure you will work it out you have the skills to do it!

[caulfield]

It is hard to give opinions on the composition when it is at half state - since the addition of the other elements will make such a difference, but hey I'll give my opinion. ;)


A couple of things that I noticed in the Dutch painting that make it work is

1. - the glass, which is the highest point of the diagnal is darker than the rest of the objects and doesn't have much contrast

2. There is a bit more foreground and the light hitting part of it mimicks the light on the wall in the back

3. The background is cooler than the foreground objects which lets the still-life pop forward.

I also would like to scoot over the coconut so the group of objects have a little space in between them somewhere and they are not so bunched together and add a little to the right side.

I think these are things you can add to yours if you want to but I don't think it is neccesary. You are the artist and you are the only one who knows where you are going from here - so I am sure you have an entirely different outlook on it. :)

Nicole

[Dave.R]

Hi Dave....composition is not my strong point, but am eager to learn and have followed your main thread and this with great interest.

I have modified your picture in PS to try and add the effect in Pieter Claesz's painting, hope this is of some help. :)

[caulfield]

Hi Dave....composition is not my strong point, but am eager to learn and have followed your main thread and this with great interest.

I have modified your picture in PS to try and add the effect in Pieter Claesz's painting, hope this is of some help. :)

Ah that's nice Dave - that lighter area in the foreground really helps balance the lighter area in the background wall.

Nicole

[Lahree]

I am so totally at a loss when it comes to comp, so this is always fasinataing to me. I was amazed at the difference that lighting the foreground did to the drawing. It really gave it dramatic depth! Just goes to show you how a little change can make a big difference!

[Bill C]

I played with Daves version a little, I'm sure the shadows I put in aren't quite right but you get the idea. I added some to the top, cropped the left a bit and added more drapes on the right. Just some thoughts.......................

[Arlene]

good points everyone. let me add a few here. first i turned dave's drawing around so it was the same direction as pieter's painting.

1. In the first set of pictures I grayed out the main objects and made them all a neutral gray. I then grayscaled the images. So what can you tell me from this about the placement of the objects and the bg darks and lights?

One thing I left in Pieter's painting is the cloth as bg. Can you tell me why I did in his, but included it as an object in yours?

2. In the second set of pictures I grayscaled and posturized the original image. So what can you tell me about the lights and darks and how it moves your eye around. Now compare it to your painting and tell me the difference.

Where are your darkest darks and your lightest values? Where are Pieter's? How does the light point your eye in the right direction in his painting? What about yours?

i'll continue on the next post since this one only takes 5 images max.

[Arlene]

3. Notice the shapes. Your triangle (red lines) that ties it all together vs. Pieter's. Which is most interesting?

Notice the repetition of shapes. Again which helps lead your eye around the composition better? which has more variety of sizes of shapes?

For example, your curtain is arranged at the end and is so busy that it stops the eye at the edge and doesn't give us the opportunity to have our eye be led back into the image. Notice how all of the objects lead your eye around in Pieters...

What else do you notice now that you're looking with a critical eye?

[Debee]

What a great learning thread!
Regarding the question Dave asked about the empty space, if it was showing itself "alive" to stand on its own. I squinted at both pieces and the answer was there. No, at least not yet. All points of discussion are so intriguing, and have shown that point of "alive" can be reached. The points about the compositional elements are wonderful lessons alone.
Thanks Dave for submitting this work for some serious discussion. We all are benefiting.

[artmasters]

Hi again everyone. My back is pretty much all healed up. The stitches come out Thursday. Thanks everyone for your concern, thoughts and prayers. I really appreciate them. Ok no more excuses. It's time to get this still life done.
Thanks Arlene and everyone who have added your suggestions. It helps to have a new perspective on this.

To answer Arlene's questions:
1. In the first set of pictures I grayed out the main objects and made them all a neutral gray. I then grayscaled the images. So what can you tell me from this about the placement of the objects and the bg darks and lights?

My group of objects all seem to be in the same plane. The fabric is too intense and is fighting for all the attention. There needs to be more depth in the composition. You included the fabric in my comp as an object instead of part of background because it is just as intense as the fuit.

2. In the second set of pictures I grayscaled and posturized the original image. So what can you tell me about the lights and darks and how it moves your eye around. Now compare it to your painting and tell me the difference.

Where are your darkest darks and your lightest values? Where are Pieter's? How does the light point your eye in the right direction in his painting? What about yours?

All of my lights are in one area. It forms a giant blob with no contrast. My eye just stops there and it doesn't go anywhere. I need to increase the variety of lights and darks to break up the "giant blob" and give my eye a chance to journey through the comp.

3. Notice the shapes. Your triangle (red lines) that ties it all together vs. Pieter's. Which is most interesting?

Notice the repetition of shapes. Again which helps lead your eye around the composition better? which has more variety of sizes of shapes?

For example, your curtain is arranged at the end and is so busy that it stops the eye at the edge and doesn't give us the opportunity to have our eye be led back into the image. Notice how all of the objects lead your eye around in Pieters...

What else do you notice now that you're looking with a critical eye?

Compared to Pieter's comp, my comp is all squished to one side, while his fills the frame. His is definetly more interesting.

The comp needs some help. I've tried a few ideas without much sucess. So I have worked on some of the other areas to get the colors closer to what I have been planning so that I can get a better feel for how everything relates. I'm leaning towards moving the coconut to the right. This will not be an easy thing to do because I have 20 or more layers around it. I have darkened the fabric and cooled down the background so that the warm colors in the foreground will pop out more. I will be evaluating more later, but it's late and my brain says it's time for sleep. Please, add any suggestions and comments. Let me know if I'm even close on my evaluations.

Thanks, Dave

[artmasters]

Here is another possibility...

[marilyn h]

Dave

This last one is most favorable to me. The texture and shadow makes a big difference. Like it! The bannana's in the other one is leading out of the picture and looks too even with fruit. The odd number is ideal.

Waiting for Arlene to make comment.

[Katydid]

dave the light and shadows i think help. you may be on the right track now, but you are going to have to wait for the experts i have always depended on my eye. it often gets me into trouble :D

i am trying to learn the rules how to do it correctly....then i can ignore them if i choose. so your still life has been a good learning tool for me too if that helps at all. :D
(maybe you can improve it, maybe not. either way it will still be a pleasing piece.)

[marilyn h]

I would crop this. The points on your fabric center in.