Drawing Basic Shapes

[timeshadowed]

Hi,

I've been struggling since June to be able to draw the basic shapes of objects. My latest failure has been the simple outline of a maple leaf. I see the basic shape as a line, but I'm unable to duplacate it on paper. I draw it perfectly in my mind, but my hand will not draw what I am seeing with my eye.

I DO have a hand-eye cordination problem. This problem also has prevented me from being able to keyboard faster than about 30 words per minute during timed testing. So this "hand-eye cordination problem" is nothing new to me. It has bothered me all of my life.

I recieved the inter-library loan copy of Sandra Angelo's book, "So You Thought You couldn't Draw". I've tried to use her 'grid' method to draw this maple leaf, but that method only confuses me more. I've also tried to draw her samples, but using the grid again only makes matters worse for me. I'm so busy (in my mind) seeing all the graph lines, that I can't seem to concentrate on the shape of the object I want to draw!

Because I'm finding basic shapes so hard to do, my drawing has been mostly that of 'formless objects' - trees, mountains, apples and roses. I do love to color with cp's!


I've been working on shading and color more than on the 'shape' of drawing.

I fear that I will never be able to do the art work that I've seen on this site. You all do such good work!!

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can overcome my problems of drawing shapes. (Turning objects upside down has NOT been helpful, that also tends only to confuse me.)

[Arlene]

Why not turn your problem into an asset? you do see color and shadows and that's a huge plus. Think impressionists...so that everythihng doesn't have to be well defined. how about just drawing the colors and values you see and not get hung up in the details? I bet you could come up with some really beautiful works that are out of the ordinary that way. :D

anotherwords, admire the work you see here, but find your own style that works with your assets and deficits...remember we all have them. :)

[timeshadowed]

"Think impressionists...so that everythihng doesn't have to
be well defined." - - Arlene

Thanks for the reply, Arlene. So are you saying that you think that my 'basic shapes problem' cannot be overcome no matter how much I practice?

I have never really cared much for 'abstract art' that was not just done for the design pattern only. My thinking ability is very analytical, and drawing distorted shape art does not interest me much. I really DO want to be able to draw accurate shapes in nature.

I want to be able to draw birds because this is what inspired me to think I might be able to learn to draw after I read in some books that "anyone can learn to draw".

[Amazingreys]

I'm glad you're posting Timeshadowed....you are asking some really good questions.
Have you thought about posting any of your work so that people can try to offer suggestions? We all start somewhere, and we all have a different style of working.
There are many people here at ST who are light years ahead of me in skill and even raw talent....but to keep growing as an artist I have to keep drawing....and NOT comparing my work to theirs. Everytime I post one of my drawings I get a lot of helpful feedback.
Everyone here is very gracious and extremely helpful.
Don't let your frustration kill your desire :)

[timeshadowed]

Amazingreys,

I am not able to scan anything right now. I have an old '97 windows95 computer. I do have a scanner, but due to having to re-install the whole system because of errors, I have not re-installed either my printer or the scanner. In fact, I have never installed the scanner myself, because it was done by the tech staff where I bought the computer. It is NOT a plug n play type. I have an SSI card installed in my cpu. Just before I had to re-install the system, the scanner started to 'act-up', so I'm not sure if it would even work now if I did do the re-install. I'm afraid that installing the scanner may cause more problems with my computer system. I need a new computer, but can not afford to buy one yet. Sigh!

Even a simple apple outline is very difficult for me to draw. It is either too round, or it is off-center and the shape has 'lumps' that need to be erased and drawn over. I've tried using 'tracing paper', and I cannot even trace an object without going 'off-line' from the original! I bought some easy-shape coloring books to practice from, but that is even hard for me to duplicate the shapes.

I've always WANTED to draw, but art class in school was always a very painful experience for me. I remember one year - I think it was 8th grade - the teacher set up a 'still-life' of flowers and fruit for the class to draw. I just sat there with tears in my eyes because I couldn't do it. I think the teacher gave my project a -D for a grade.

The re-discovery of the Ivory-Billed Woodpecker last April is what inspired me to try to draw again. I wanted to produce a picture to hang up in my work booth. I have yet to attempt THAT project. I just started reading how-to-draw books and so many of them said that ANYONE can learn to draw. I believed them. But now, I'm starting to have my doubts.

[Arlene]

impressionism

http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/monet/first/monet.parasol.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/monet/later/monet.femme-metier.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/monet/later/ombrelle.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/pissarro/orchard.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/pissarro/pissarro.haymakers-rest.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/sisley/sisley.seine-bougival-winter.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/sisley/etarche.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/morisot/cradle.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/cezanne/sl/cezanne.appg.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/cezanne/sl/cezanne.sl-apples.jpg
http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/impressionism.html
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/impressionism.html

[KarenCardinal]

Hi timeshadowed!

First let me say that Arlene has given you some fabulous advice with respect that you have the oportunity to take advantage of your assets! There are multitudes of artists who have trouble seeing the full range of values (so they generally produce low key works), some have a terrible time with colors (so they create beautiful monochromatics). Just because you aren't as good with outlines as others doesn't mean anything. As Arlene said, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

For myself I rarely start with an outline anymore. I prefer to put down "blocks" of color and build up my values and details with progressive layers. It's much too easy to make everything look too outlined with colored pencils, so you should look at the fact that outlining isn't your thing as a blessing.

btw I'll tell you a secret... I can't make a decent outline of an apple either. Give me enough layers of colored pencil or graphite though and I can convey the illusion and feeling of an apple though. ;)

My one other comment is in wondering how long you have been drawing. If it's just been since June then you are being very hard on yourself. I don't know about anyone else here, but I spent a lot of years drawing with a number 2 pencil before I could make anything that looked like what I wanted. Relax and stop worrying about getting things "perfect"! Art isn't perfect... It's emotional, cathartic, frustraiting, at times even frightening... but it's NEVER perfect. :D

[timeshadowed]

Thanks Arlene and Karen for your kind comments. I will be looking into impressionism more, but from the examples given, I doubt that this style is one that I would enjoy doing. Everything seems to be 'out of focus', somewhat like a poor photo. Yet, there is still the 'form and shapes' in all of these pictures.

My drawings look more like your typical cartoon drawings - which I have NO interest in drawing either - where everything is drawn out of proprotion by design. Mine are NOT done on purpose, they just look out of proprotion.

I am unable to reproduce the same shape (or line) twice. An example of this would be if I atempted to draw a face. One eye may turn out round, the other oval, or one eye would be a lot bigger than the other eye. No matter how much 'fixing' I would do, they still would not look the same. My shapes all lack symmetry. If I try to draw a vase, I am unable to make the right side match the left side.

Many shapes in nature have symmetry - leaves are a prime example. Without the ability to draw symmetricaly, I am very limited to what I am able to draw. That is why I have chosen to draw mostly leafless trees, or landscapes.

I really do appreciate all the help that I'm recieving on this forum. I have gained so much insight from reading past postings here.

[Arlene]

first you have to take a step back. Karen is 100% correct in that if you've only been drawing since June, then you're way too hard on yourself. I've been drawing for 44 years. it takes lots of practice. as for a vase being symmetrical? I can't do it! I do 1/2 and then trac3e the other half to match. ;)

Is there a place you could take a beginner class to learn some tricks and helpful hints?

As for the impressionism, look at those paintings again...only this time stand further back. Now does it look "out of focus"?

also you're a beginner, so the best thing you could do is study different kinds of art....preferrably by going to art museums if you can. because if you do, you'll see that even those things you think are in focus are lots of times out of focus too...(the old master's paintings)...but like the impressionists they know that the viewer will be looking from afar.

also look at these two cp pieces, first closely and then stand back from the screen:
http://cpsa.org/GALLERY/WINNERS2005/Smolko05.html
http://cpsa.org/GALLERY/WINNERS2004/Smolko04.html

[timeshadowed]

You mention tracing the other half of a vase to match. I use tracing paper a lot, but how do you transfer the image to your practice paper? I know about using graphite paper but that is so expensive to use when one is just 'fooling around' trying to learn. Is there a less expensive way to go?

Is there a place you could take a beginner class to learn some tricks and helpful hints?

My biggest fear is that if I were in a class setting, I would be pushed beyond my ability and only end up in tears as I was in my younger school days. In general, school was NOT my best learning experience. I seem to do better in an individual setting rather than a class setting. But, I'll have to do some investigating to find out if there are any beginner drawing classes available in my area that would fit into my tight budget. I have been relying very heavily on the public library system for beginners drawing books. They have an excellent selection of choices available.

It is true, that I have only been drawing since June. When I was a child, I did do a lot of 'scribble-design' coloring when assigned to do a 'free-hand drawing' project in school. I would take a black crayon and make a 'scribble-design' on the paper and then color in the spaces with different colors. It was my way of getting a passing grade for my art project. When I was about 12 yrs old (now 59 yrs) I also did a few 'color by number' projects at home using the Venus Paradise brand cp's. They came in a kit but also the pencils were sold individually, too. That is where I got my start at loving to use colored pencils!

In case you have not already guessed, I am a perfectionist by nature. My usual motto is: 'If I can't learn to do something right, then I would rather not do it at all.' I gave myself about one week to learn the basic knitting stockinette stitch and have it look like an adult had done it rather than a 5 yr old. I DID make my goal! (Self-taught) I went on to learn other pattern stitches and even made up my own doll clothes patterns to sell at doll sales.

I think that I have been very patient with myself so far with learning to draw. Given my perfectionist nature and past history for learning new things, I should have given up long ago on drawing. Yes, I know that it takes time and practice to learn everything that there is to know about drawing, but by now, I feel that I should be able to draw something that does not look like a 5 yr old had drawn it. But I'm still plugging along because the desire to draw is so strong and I believe that I CAN learn to do landscapes that are created within the realm of my own mind but using a photo for a reference guide.

[Arlene]

if you're looking for perfection, then really find another outlet. I know you've been reading the site so you've probably seen my comments over and over about how the goal is not the end result but the enjoyment of the process. If you're a perfectionist with drawing then you will never ever be satisfied.

now having said that...this is not something you can teach yourself in a week or even a month or two. It's an ongoing process. It's something that takes lots of practice, and patience...lots of patience.

Unlike knitting it takes lots more then learning a stitch or two. Please relax and learn to enjoy the process first...otherwise you'll never be happy with drawing.

as for tracing...i fold my tracing paper in half and then draw the other half on the "wrong side" open it up and viola...whatever the object is is drawn equally.

unlike when a child, you are now paying a teacher to teach YOU. don't be intimidated. they should be intimidated by you, because it's their job and goal to teach YOU...meaning if they don't do a good job, you're most likely not going to recommend them to someone else...and then they have no one to teach. ;)

find some classes and before joining call up the teacher and speak to them. Find out their philosophy about teaching and whether they're dogmatic or willing to bend. And if you don't like the teacher, find another one!

[timeshadowed]

Yes, I have been reading and learning a lot from this site. Thank you for creating such a place to come to on the internet. I guess my windows95 and netscape 3.4 'footprint' is obvious to those who have access to the controls :-)). The 'smilies' you all use don't even show up in this old browser when posting, thus I have to do it the 'old way'. :-)

I still don't know how to get the image from the thin 'tracing paper' to the paper I want to draw on short of using graphite paper. In the days of the typewriter, I could use cheap carbon paper, but carbon paper is no longer cheap at about $6 for a few sheets!

By 'perfection' in drawing, I mean being able to reproduce an object on paper and have it look reasonably like the original object. Imagine the frustration if you were trying to draw an orange, but the shape always turned out to look like an egg! That is what it feels like to me. I do enjoy the coloring process of drawing, but until I am able to make a shape resemble the object I want to draw it will be frustrating to me.

[Greg]

My two cents worth. As for tranfering an image. I put the image on regular paper. Then take a soft lead graphite pencil and completely cover the back of the paper. Then I just softly trace the image onto the the paper that I intend to use for CP. Don't press hard though, it will impress lines that are very hard to cover later.

As for drawing. Arlene gave you some very good advice. I'm not a great drawer either. I've improved over the last 9 months or so, but I still have a long way to go. So, that leads to Karen's suggestion. I would not focus on line drawing, I would focus on blocks of color and values. By doing that, it can make an artist out of a lot of people who's drawing is not what they would like it to be. Give yourself some time and practice. And, the advice that is offered here is absolutely awesome. There are some of the best CP artists in the world that contribute here.

Hang in there and enjoy the process. ( I have had to tell myself that over and over again ). :)

[timeshadowed]

Greg,

Thanks for your suggestion on making your own graphite paper. Would that also work on thin tracing paper? What number graphite pencil do you use to coat the underside?

Right now I'm just using regular printer paper that has been cut in forths to practice on. I bought a set of 120 Prismacolor pencils and tried them out for a time, but I have gone back to using the 'cheapos from Target' until I am a little more advanced. I don't have a lot of money to spend on this hobby and wanted to save my Prisma's for when I get better.

I do like the way Prisma's blend together but the cheaper pencils also blend nicely. That way, if I mess things up, I don't feel so bad throwing it away and starting over.

I have saved over 75 of these small drawings, both graphite and cp's, in a little photo album so that I will be able to look back and see how I drew at the very beginning. But there ARE times that I mess things up so bad, that the only practical thing to do is to throw it in the trash and start over with a fresh piece of paper.

Maybe someday, I'll get brave enough to try re-installing my scanner so that I can upload my drawings to my web site and post the links here.

[Greg]

Greg,

Thanks for your suggestion on making your own graphite paper. Would that also work on thin tracing paper? What number graphite pencil do you use to coat the underside?

Right now I'm just using regular printer paper that has been cut in forths to practice on. I bought a set of 120 Prismacolor pencils and tried them out for a time, but I have gone back to using the 'cheapos from Target' until I am a little more advanced. I don't have a lot of money to spend on this hobby and wanted to save my Prisma's for when I get better.

I do like the way Prisma's blend together but the cheaper pencils also blend nicely. That way, if I mess things up, I don't feel so bad throwing it away and starting over.

I have saved over 75 of these small drawings, both graphite and cp's, in a little photo album so that I will be able to look back and see how I drew at the very beginning. But there ARE times that I mess things up so bad, that the only practical thing to do is to throw it in the trash and start over with a fresh piece of paper.

Maybe someday, I'll get brave enough to try re-installing my scanner so that I can upload my drawings to my web site and post the links here.

You're Welcome. I think I generally use a 6B. Sometimes a 4B. You have to cover the back real well. I think I just use printer paper for those types of sketches, BUT, I may be doing that wrong. In my opinion, it doesn't matter that much since what you are using it for is just to sketch and then transfer it. But, I'll leave that to the experts cause I may get a hammer for that opinion. :D

I used to use the cheaper pencils. I remember having a devil of a time trying to cover the tooth of the paper. For me, bright color is real important, so I wanted to have as much color saturation as I could get. I found that I just couldn't get the depth of color with the Crayola's and Rose Arts. One thing that took me some getting used to with Prisma's - because they are a little softer you have to keep a really sharp point or you'll get some really thick lines. The cheaper pencils were harder and it was easier to get the fine lines. It just didn't have a whole lot of color in it.

Hope this helps. Good luck to ya. Keep drawing and keep smiling.

[Greg]

Also, I wanted to add another thought that you might try. Go ahead with landscapes. Mountains, trees, water, streams, and flowers. Throw in a V shaped bird or two. Pay real close attention to the values because that's what makes it realistic. This is going to test your value skills, as well as your perspective. There are many artists who are not necessarily great drawers. You might try the landscapes instead of impressionism, if impressionism doesn't move you. But in between, try one of an egg, an apple, a glass of water, just for fun. Don't sweat it. Just have fun with it and see how many values you can get in the piece. That will help sharpen your drawing skills. I generally do a seascape or two, then will work on something I call a project, just to learn. The last thing I did was a portrait. First one. It was a wonderful learning process for me.

You know what will happen next???? After a while you will find yourself adding many wonderful details to your landscapes that you couldn't have imagined yourself doing before. Why, because of the egg, the apple, the vase, and maybe a kitty cat or two ( all which helped your drawing skills ). And the main thing, don't sweat it. Just enjoy the learning process.

Oh by the way, layers. VERY important. I hated putting so many layers on. Why couldn't I just put two or three layers on????? Because they are what makes the piece rich in values and color.

[timeshadowed]

Thanks for your added comments, Greg. I like to use the 72 box Target Brand 'Create Like Crazy' pencils. They are under $6 for a whole 72 different colors! Crayola's are ok, but I do not like the RoseArt Brand. They seem to brake too much while still in the shapener. But I agree with most here, that Prisma is the way to go. It's just that I'm only in practice mode now so why not save some money by using cheaper pencils. I will know when it is time for me to switch to Prisma.

I have done about 4 whole apples plus one that is cut in half. Each one does seem to get better color. But drawing the original shape is such a bear for me to do. Once the outline is done, then I really enjoy it. I have also done a lot of tree trunks experimenting with different layers of color to make the bark look interesting. I have attenpted to do a few 'landscapes' but mostly I'm still at the 'one object per drawing' stage, as I try to complete the drawing in one sitting - that may be as much as five hours at a time though. I also drew one feather which turned out pretty good for me.

[timeshadowed]

I've noticed that even though there have been no new relplies to this thread, many are still viewing it.

I would like to know if not being able to draw basic shapes is a common problem faced by a lot of 'wana-be-able-to draw-but-can't' people.

It would be so comforting to know that I'm not alone in facing this problem.

Thanks for any responses to this survey.

[Paula]

Timeshadowed,
Let me put your mind at ease right now - you are NOT alone.

Basic shapes (that look good), perspective, shading, and composition are all the things that I'm working on right now. Perspective especially gives me an upset stomach. :eek: :D

cheers

[Paula]

Sorry for the double post, but the editing sands of time ran out.

Timeshadowed, here is an verbal example of my trying to use shapes. I just finished trying to draw a horse's head using shapes then rounding out the rough edges to make it look more like a horse. Oh BOY! :(
It ended up looking like a pterodactyl. :o Soooo underneath the horseadactyl, I drew a cracked egg with a tail. :D

[timeshadowed]

Thanks, Paula, for your comments.

I've been trying to draw the head of a bird, and the outline looked more like that of a bottle-nosed dolphin, than a bird! But I've since been able to draw a reasonable shaped Cardninal head. But that was after many, many tries.

It is nice to know that I'm not alone in this endeaver.

[timeshadowed]

Yesterday I sketched my first eight point buck. The outline was reasonably good, but the finished product looked more like a doe with antlers than a buck with them. It also needed to gain a little weight! But hey, it was my first try. I went to the library today and checked out a few books with various deer pictures in them. That should give me some ideas on shapes of antlers, the nose, etc.

Maybe there is some hope for a non-sketcher like myself!

TimeShadowed

[Arlene]

i appreciate what you're trying to do, but what's happening is you're trying to play chopin without first learning the scales. take baby steps. draw and egg first and get that to look like an egg. then draw a bowl, a pepper, etc. start with simple. there are way too many things to try and remember when drawing an animal or person...

when drawing, sketch lightly first and keep refining as you go.

[timeshadowed]

i appreciate what you're trying to do, but what's happening is you're trying to play chopin without first learning the scales. take baby steps.


Thank you for your comments, Arlene.

I am not trying to create a work of art yet. The level of my drawing only belongs in a 'personal sketchbook'. I'm just trying to learn how to sketch basic shapes first. I never created a 'drawing' or sketch as a small child because I could not do it. However, I did do a lot of coloring in color books.

I've practiced the circle, the oval, the square, the cube, and the triangle shapes over and over on a 'magic slate'. I feel that I'm ready now to try some more advanced shapes.

I drew my 'buck' on regular printer paper, torn in forths - not even cut. I used really cheap Target brand colored pencils. A box of 72 pencils costs less than $6.00. I'm NOT ready to even think of creating a work of art yet. The only reason I color my sketches, is because I enjoy doing it that way.

Most people would call what I'm doing 'just doodling'. But I've never even 'doodled' in my life!

I was just happy that the shape I drew actually resembled that of a 'buck'.

As for learning 'shading' and such, that is a long, long way off for me yet.

[Arlene]

As for learning 'shading' and such, that is a long, long way off for me yet.no, no, no....shading should be learned at the same time. they go hand in hand. as a matter of fact i'd love if you'd take some of those simple shapes and shine a light from one side and just shade not worrying about getting the shape right. You might be pleasantly surprised. :)

[timeshadowed]

i'd love if you'd take some of those simple shapes and shine a light from one side and just shade not worrying about getting the shape right. You might be pleasantly surprised. :)

Thanks for your help and suggestions, Arlene. I will keep pluggin' along in my journey to learn to draw right.


I have drawn several apples and have put shadows and highlights on them. But this has been done because the picture I was copying had them.

I've also tried to blend the shading on a cube, also copying a picture that was in a book.

So, yes, I am SLOWLY trying to grasp that concept along with drawing my shapes. But I find the shading/blending very confusing right now.