Angle of working table - easel etc [Archive]

lene

11-18-2005, 04:47 AM

Hi
I see some of you here work on an easel or tables at high degree angle. I work at a table about 30 degree now.
I have the opportunity (with a little adjustments) to work on a table-top that can be in a high degree position. It is heavy and steady.
My questions to you working like this:
what are the great benefits of working like this - if other than a perhaps a better overview ?
Do you like this position for different medias ?
Do you attach the paper directly to the easel/table or do you have a top so you can move your work around ?
Did anybody try it and disliked it ?

I will of cause test it out myself once the top has been minimized (much to large to have placed in proper place now - have to get my husband in work there :cool: ) - but I would like to hear your experiences. I am not sure I will like the need for attaching the paper to the table (not to slide off). I sometimes move my drawing around. So any good advice on this if working on a smooth, drawingtable with no "grip-edges" like on an easel.
Also How do you protect your drawing from smudging with your hand ?

kimbas

11-18-2005, 06:50 AM

Great question looking forward to the replies as I cannot afford one atm still working flat at kitchen table..

Bill C

11-18-2005, 07:12 AM

I started working on an easel when I started using the wallis paper. The way wallis is (sanded) i get a lot of pencil dust, especially in the early stages, the more up-right position helps it to fall away. Also for me the wallis acts more painterly and so the easel adds to that experience and helps me loosen up. I was working on a cheap easel, this new one is MUCH more stable and doesn't slide around. It has a tray that is PERFECT for storing the pencils I'm using at the moment. Oh and I SELDOM press hard! LOL

Toni

11-18-2005, 07:27 AM

I've been working with an upright easel for a couple years now. You could't pay me to go back to working at a drawing table.

Hmm lets see, I was having trouble with headaches, neck pain, shoulder pain and carpal tunnel problems when I worked long hours. (i've been drawing since before i started school) I see a chiropractor on a regular basis, and he always helped me tremendously. But everytime I worked the aches would return.

By changing to an easel I eliminate the need to "lean" over a drawing, so the neck, back pain from working have dissapeared. Your body developes a "muscle memory" after doing the same repetitive movement time and time again. By changing my angle of work, I have by passed my carpal tunnel problems, as now I use my arm differently than just using my hand to draw with. The easel also allows me to sit or stand, with a quick adjustment.

Alot of it is because I no longer simply draw when I work, because I've developed a different way of working that suits me just fine. My pencil application has changed. Could very be in relation to the easel, or it might not.

I simply clamp my drawing board to the easel, and my paper clamps or tapes to the board. I clamp a protective sheet of paoer over the piece where my hand would rub. Not a big deal.

TJ

Cleo

11-18-2005, 08:15 AM

I use a drawing board or sometimes work flat on a table....although I find I have to keep checking my work in an upright position to make sure I haven't flattened the perspective.

I have a piece of acetate marked with a grid in permanent pen. Usually I put that under my hand when I'm working.

I haven't tried drawing upright...although I do try to move about and work in short bursts to minimise muscle stress.

Let me know how the easel works out for you...I know its quite popular

Cleo :bye1:

Brenda

11-18-2005, 08:23 AM

Interesting thread....

Right now I work on a portable desk that is only slightly elevated. I elevate it more by putting a box wrapped in some non-slip fabric but it's still not high enough for me. I find if the angle is too low while I'm working that my work is distorted and like Toni, I start getting achy in my back and shoulders. Soooo.... I've been considering an easel.

Toni, I know you're trying to move but when you get time - or the opportunity - would you mind showing how you set your easel up? And yours, too Bill. I just wanna see how it all looks while your working on your pictures. Wish I could try and buy instead of buy and try! ;)

Bill C

11-18-2005, 08:50 AM

here ya go...........

Toni

11-18-2005, 08:57 AM

I think I have a photo already on the old puter brenda... let me see if I can pull it off, if not.. you might have to wait.

of course.. what do you think will be the first thing I set up when I get down there tomorrow? :angel: :rolleyes: :D ;)

TJ

lene

11-18-2005, 09:01 AM

thanks for the photo, Bill, it looks much more steady than the wood-ones you usually see :)

Toni

11-18-2005, 09:15 AM

not the one i was after, but this one will do. My protective sheet isn't on yet though, as i was just laying in my underpainting.

TJ

Brenda

11-18-2005, 09:37 AM

Bill C

11-18-2005, 09:55 AM

Thanks for the pics. They do help quite a bit. Bill, get your wife to take a picture of you working. I wanna see!! Please....

Do those backing boards come with the easels or do you purchase those separately? And the clamps... are they special ones or just any flat clamp? And the easel, do they move up and down easily or does it depend on the type of easel you purchase?

Bill, do you work at yours sitting down? If so, doesn't it hurt your back to hunch over it?

Sorry so many questions... I am a cautious buyer!

hmmm, dunno about the pict of me working, LOL, it's usually late and she's in bed! Mine didn't come with a board and the clamps I use are just standard large binder clips from the office supply. I usually work sitting down, don't know if I would want to stand for 6-8 hours straight! My easel adjusts up, down from sitting to standing, will adjust to fit most sizes of board or canvas, and adjusts to most any angle. btw, mine came from Hobby Lobby, right around $100.

Hezzy

11-18-2005, 10:31 AM

I know this is going to sound stupid but... I never thought of doing anything but painting and sketches on my easle. I have done life drawing (sketches) in studio but when I am at home and drawing I always sit at my drawing table.

I keep it in front of a window and also have a natural light.

Bill what you said about the dust and debris being able to fall off when using an easle makes such sense! I just don't know if I will have enough control over my shaking hands standing up ... I will have to try it though.

Toni

11-18-2005, 10:34 AM

Brenda I just use a standard drawing board, my clamps are also just generic office supply clamps.

make sure you look for one with a tray for the pencils, and will readily accept a drawing board as opposed to a canvas only type.

hmm I seem to recall mine was around 120.00, from Utrecht.

adjustment up and down are simple as a turn of a knob, and fwd and bk angle adjust the same.

easy, quick, convienient and takes up less space than a drawing table!!!

Norma69

11-18-2005, 06:12 PM

I do my work standing at the fridge (that way I can't get inside) :D , but seriously it sure is easier on the back and neck - good with bi-focals too, but you're too young to have to worry about that. Try it, see how it feels and buy the easel.

Norma

Debee

11-18-2005, 11:17 PM

Okay Norma you got me interested with the bi focal comment. I am having a terrible time seeing my work. I can't wear my bi focals when I paint. They have such a small focus area that I can't let my eyes scan around the painting. so I wind up cranking my head around like some goose :eek:
Does painting vertical help with that?

oozoo

11-19-2005, 02:30 AM

I have a couple of easels, but I never use them except with paint. For drawing or cp paintings, I use a drawing board on my lap, and I sit in a chair, on my loveseat, couch, or on the floor, and hold the drawing board on my lap, and turn it every which way. The way I work, I don't think an easel would work for me, but a drawing board might, if I had room in my studio. I think I might give it a try though just to see if it helps me be less heavy handed!!

artfulscribe

11-19-2005, 09:35 AM

I've really been curious about all you folks that seem to be working upright...it seems amazing that holding your arms up to work that way doesn't cause even more shoulder and neck tension...guess I'll have to see for myself!

I have chronic neck and shoulder tightness (sometimes pain) from working at a computer all day. I have an angled drawing board on top of an angled drafting table. Between the two of them, it seems to keep me from hunching over too badly. But I also keep a yoga mat in my studio and will literally take 'yoga breaks' to keep problem areas nice and stretched (also good for your poor little hands, which do a lot of work clutching those pencils!). Before settling on this combination, I'd often end up with serious, totally dibilitating tension headaches. Not a pretty picture (pardon the pun).

Roxaa

Norma69

11-19-2005, 12:14 PM

Debee - I keep my drawing up with magnets - so I just slide it around to suit my eyes needs. I do have graded lenses which makes seeing the whole picture easier. Am blind as a bat without glasses and see nothing but a blur.

Norma

Arlene

11-19-2005, 03:15 PM

I've really been curious about all you folks that seem to be working upright...it seems amazing that holding your arms up to work that way doesn't cause even more shoulder and neck tension...guess I'll have to see for myself!

Roxaathat's my feeling too. everytime i've had to use my window to transfer a drawing, i find my arm and shoulder is much more fatigued then using a drawing board.

Toni

11-19-2005, 03:55 PM

Don't forget one important thing.. using a easel changes the way you work, and your pencil application. If your open to change then try it, if your happy like you are don't.

Hehe like Norma says.. try working at the fridge first!

TJ

lene

11-30-2005, 07:34 AM

Hi
almost forgot to follow this thread;
My "high-angle" drawingboard is still to be adjusted ....
instead I had an older, cheap, tabletop-easel that I acutally almost throw out - but - standing on my 30 degree angle table, with a "stop" at both front and back it works great :clap: because this gives it a stability it does not have when just placed on a table.
the first couple of days I felt a slight pain in my right arm and shoulder, because of the new angles it seems. At least they are gone now, and I find it nice to work like this.
I don't have the painful neck I sometimes get from drawing + I think this gives a better view on the drawing when actually working on it... :bye1:

rosemary

11-30-2005, 11:23 AM

This is aquestion about the brand names of easels. I am looking for my first easel, and don't want one that is over l00.00. Also, my grandbabies are always coming over to look, and they would use it as a means to pull them selves up, and I would die if it fell on them. Any ideas. What do you think of the metal one Bill, from Hobby Lobby? Would it tip easy. Rosemary

Brenda

11-30-2005, 01:34 PM

I just got my new easel! Meant to tell you this morning, Toni but I forgot.

Anyway, I had a "40% off any item" coupon from Hobby Lobby so I picked one up. I *think* it is the same as Bill's. It was a booger to put together. The directions didn't even look like the same easel. I finally called my hubby over to help me. After we had several little tiffs trying to figure it out, we got it all together!

My current work (The Goose Girl in living color) is propped up there and looks mighty fine. Now I just need time to work on it. ;) That precious commodity is in short supply and high demand these days.

I'm really anxious to try it out. I think I'll try standing first. Will let you know what I think.

caulfield

11-30-2005, 01:59 PM

I work on the kitchen table :rolleyes: and then stick it on the fridge every once in a while and work that way... :blushing: --- I was lookng at some of the drawing/drafting tables on dick blick and it seems like some of the tilt so far back it would be close to using an easel. I'm just internet browsing... I really like this one... http://www.dickblick.com/zz501/44/ I like to work both sittig and standing... hmmm...

Brenda

11-30-2005, 02:05 PM

caulfield

11-30-2005, 02:33 PM

At the size you work, Nicole I'm surprised you don't already have something. That table from Dick Blick looks wonderful. Do you have a place to put it? And do you have Hobby Lobbys in NH? Drawing tables are all on sale this week, 1/3 off. OR I could send you an internet coupon for 40% off any regular priced item.

I like standing my work up, backing away from it and just letting it sit. You know, walk by it a few times. Throw some quick glances at it to see how it looks from different angles. This easel will help with that if I can adjust to working this way.

I don't have anything because I'm a housewife, lol, and it will have to go in my tiny kitchen/dining room/ living room because that is where I always am, LOL! I just am too anal to have other things, including toys, permanently housed here - because I want it pretty, lol. I think I need to get over it though and get a drawing table in here. I was also lookig a folding drafting tales - does anyone have one?

Thanks for the info Brenda, but no Hobbly Loby's around here. :( They seem pretty cheap on Dick Blick though.

I like doing the same thing Brenda - I like having it up (on the frdge) and walk by it for a day to see if it looks right. :) Let us know how the easel goes - it seems like you can always altenate between table/easel...

Brenda

11-30-2005, 03:05 PM

I just am too anal to have other things, including toys, permanently housed here - because I want it pretty, lol. I think I need to get over it though and get a drawing table in here. ha ha ha! Drop it down, throw a beautiful tablecloth over it and use it as an end table.

Bill C

11-30-2005, 06:42 PM

rosemary

12-01-2005, 05:55 AM

Brenda: That sounds like a beautiful spot for your picture of your daughter.
I was wondering if you thought the new easel would remain standing if a 23 pound toddler pulled themselves up on it. Thanks for sharing. Rosemary

Toni

12-01-2005, 06:33 AM

Lene your set up seems to work just fine. So you can tell a diff in your neck and shoulders already.. thats great!

Congratulations Brenda! Lemme know how you like it!

Hi Rosemary,

I think that would depend on a few things like the design of the easel, how wide the base is, what type of flooring it sits on, if you've gotten anything attached to the upper part of it making it top heavy.

I think I've rocked mine pretty well a couple times over the last few years and it moved but has never gone over. Them lil rug rats have a tendancy to push and pull when they start pullin up on things though. Thats sumthing I've never had to deal with... yet.

They do make a table top easel if that might be an option?

TJ

rosemary

12-01-2005, 07:01 AM

Morning TonI; Think the crummers would pull it over. They weigh about 23 lbs. I don't think it would be hard to pull over. Your table top easel idea sounds right to me. After the new year, thought I wuld just drive around provided the roads get cleared, and try them out. Good day....Rosemary

Brenda

12-01-2005, 07:25 AM

Rosemary, I'm afraid the easel I got from Hobby Lobby would just pull right over. The base on this one just isn't wide enough or heavy enough for the stability it would need for a toddler to climb on.

It's working fine for me but I have no little bitty ones in my home anymore. (I'm waiting for more grandbabies. Someone in my family needs to hurry and have me some more to spoi... I mean, love dearly!)

rosemary

12-01-2005, 07:39 AM

Thanks Brenda: You just saved me a lot of trouble.
When you have time Brenda, post some more drawings of babies and children.
Love your picture of daughter. It was inspiring. Steal some time, Brenda.

Rosemary

Brenda

12-01-2005, 07:49 AM

Ahhh, Rosemary. How very sweet! Thank you. I'm working on my little Goose Girl right now. I hope to post something on her soon. Steal some time? Wish I could. It's just so busy at home. It makes me sad to not have time for my art but if I have to choose between time with my family and doing my art, my family wins. Surely things will slow down soon. I keep hoping!

rosemary

12-01-2005, 11:57 AM

Table top easel: If any one else on scribbletalk is looking for a tabletop easel: Daniel Smith has a new one for 39.99, with drawer and handle in leather.

Arlene: Does Daniel Smith advertize for you? Would they or anyother i.e. dick blick, etc. have a special price for scribbletalk members who would mention their name product, endorce them: and then give a discount for members only of scribbletalk. i.e. table top easel. Rosemary

Bill Merrick

12-02-2005, 11:30 AM

Hi everyone
This is my easel I made myself, fully adjustable flat to upright mounted on a table that I made out of conti-board, at the moment its in a studio in the attic so I have to use a daylight lamp, in the summer I detach it from the table and carry both of them out to the summerhouse where I work, or if its really nice on the patio, as you can see pastel pencils create a lot of dust but most of it gets caught in the trap at the bottom of the board which is vacuumed.
This my first attempt at uploading images so I hope it all works.

Bill

Toni

12-02-2005, 10:36 PM

Bill this looks like it works great! Was it hard to make?

TJ

Cleo

12-03-2005, 02:47 AM

Wow Bill....love the Cat!!!

The baord is great too !

Cleo :)

Bill Merrick

12-03-2005, 07:52 AM

Thanks Toni & Cleo
I will draw the plans and post them if you would like to see more detail.

Bill

GWESQ

12-03-2005, 08:50 AM

Thanks Toni & Cleo
I will draw the plans and post them if you would like to see more detail.

Bill

Have you ever thought of trying to Market this design? If it is well-received here, maybe it would be commercially as well.

Brenda

12-03-2005, 09:42 AM

This is terrific, Bill. You are so creative! And The Plans??? You will share the plans for this?

OOooooohhh, my husband (Super-Handy Man is his super hero name) can build anything! Will you share? Please????

rosemary

12-03-2005, 10:32 AM

Boy that is super. It looks heavy and steady. Does it have wheels?

Rosemary

Bill Merrick

12-03-2005, 05:26 PM

GWESQ
Thanks for the advice but I think I’m to old to be thinking about making my second million (only joking) but seriously I think the design is that simple most people would take a look then go home and make there own.

Brenda
Thanks for the complement, but I think when I was made I was given a Japanese brain because whenever I see something, I always look and study it to see what I think is wrong with it, (in my opinion that is) then go home and sit down and design my own.

I will draw up the plans and take some close-up photos and post them.

Rosemary
No, it does not have wheels it was originally designed with folding legs so that when the table was flat and the legs folded it only measured 36 x 24 x 6 ins so that it was easy to store, it was also designed so that I could sit in an easy chair and paint, all was well till the first test, when I was told in no uncertain terms no way, so the legs came off and it was screwed to a table I had made previously for my wife’s laptop.
And a place to paint made in the attic for the winter months.

caulfield

01-11-2006, 09:02 AM

A $2 ALTERNATIVE!!!

OK don't make fun - but I went to a sale at the local college which they have every month to discard old things and I found this tabletop podium! I just set it on my kitchen table where I usually work and it is at the perfect standing height! I wish it was a bit more upright, but for $2 you can't beg!!

Brenda

01-11-2006, 09:59 AM

That's really handy, Nicole!

I had something similar but it wasn't angled enough. I had to choose whether to let it lay at a shorter angle than I wanted and chance throwing off my perspective BUT hold my pencils in my left hand OR hold it at a better angle but not hold my pencils. I didn't like either choice.

So I bought an easel just like Bill's at Hobby Lobby for 40% off. The first three or four times I worked at it I thought I had wasted my money. I didn't like the upright angle, I was uncomfortable not holding onto my board, it was hard to figure out how to work that close, etc...

And then, all of a sudden it was perfect. Love it. Love working at it, love how it holds my paper upright, love the little tray for my pencils, I hold my current pencils in hand now, love having my reference clamped right that at eye level. LOVE IT!!!!! I'd recommend an easel to anyone but I'd also warn that there is a transition period.

glo

01-13-2006, 02:05 AM

Brenda,

Do you find that you are holding your pencils differently with using the easel?
Like using it on its side or still like holding a pencil. Hope that makes sense. Also I wondered if you all who clamp their paper find it makes marks on the paper or do you not mind the indentions. Maybe I'm anal on this point.

Also I spend 25 to 30 hours a week at a drafting table, that is 4' by 6', painting wc reproductions for my work. That when I draw I like to curl up on the couch with my board. But since I have already had both wrists done 2 years ago, I'm cautious and open to suggestions for a more body healthy way to work. Although I have pangs of guilt because my husband did such a great job at making my desk. I can easily work on 6-8 prints at a time.

Could you please see if your easel has a name on it and model#. We do not have Hobby Lobbies here, but if I had a name and # maybe I could find one here. Yours and Bill's seem more sturdy that some seen here.
Gloria

Brenda

01-25-2006, 07:58 AM

Glo, thanks for the PM letting me know you had questions. I missed this somehow. So sorry!

Let's see... Do you find that you are holding your pencils differently with using the easel?
Like using it on its side or still like holding a pencil. Hope that makes sense. Also I wondered if you all who clamp their paper find it makes marks on the paper or do you not mind the indentions. Maybe I'm anal on this point. I am much better at holding my pencil like I am writing. I tend to get lazy and lay it down more on it's side when I'm using a drawing board. The results seems to be better if the pencil is held more upright. The pigment goes down into those valleys better.

I do clamp my paper to the easel. I still use my drawing board and use the clamp that is on it. I leave enough margin around the outside of the picture to put tape around the edge. The tape protects the edges and gives me a straight edge to color up to. I put the clamp on the tape and not on the area that has color on it. (Does that make sense?)
...I like to curl up on the couch with my board. But since I have already had both wrists done 2 years ago... Just using the words "curl up on the couch" makes me cringe. Perhaps you are way more disciplined than I am but I know if I did that, I'd also be using poor posture with my hands and my shoulders. My hands don't usually bother me too much but my shoulders and my neck hurt like crazy if I'm not careful. It's been much, much better since I got my easel.
Could you please see if your easel has a name on it and model#. We do not have Hobby Lobbies here, but if I had a name and # maybe I could find one here. Yours and Bill's seem more sturdy that some seen here.I can't find a name or a model # anywhere on my easel. Perhaps Bill can find one on his. I'll try to do a search online and see if I can find it for you.

I do like it. It was a booger to put together though. The directions didn't look anything like the real thing. My husband, who in his other persona is actually Super HandyDandy Man, even had problems with it.

Does this answer your questions?

glo

01-27-2006, 11:49 PM

Thanks Brenda,

Your info was good, but the Name/model# would help so much, if it's not too much trouble. I'll keep looking but at most art sites there are so many wooden/oil painter's easels and very few that look like yours. thanks for looking back here.

Gloria

christine

01-28-2006, 01:23 AM

My husband found some plans online for a split top table, which allows for the drawing board to be raised while the right/left side remain stationary. I love the working surface to my right for the sharpener/pencil bin etc. I believe he may still have the plans or website if anyone is interesed. The inside is about 6" deep, which will allow for storage of pencils, fixative etc.

He had to special order the piano hinge that allows the board to rest at desired stop and I believe they were the most expensive part of the table. This has saved me many neck aches working up right like this! It's also nice to have the option of working flat if needed. I've attached a photo below. I'll have him look up the website and post it here if he can find it.

Christine

Brenda

01-28-2006, 08:47 AM

Glo, I couldn't find it on the hobby lobby website but I'm pretty sure this is it on the Dick Blick site. Mine looks very, very similar to this one.

It costs alot more than mine did. I even didn't pay a 1/4 of that price.

High Style Easel (http://www.dickblick.com/zz502/00/)

Toni

01-28-2006, 10:02 AM

This is the one I use,

http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_product.cfm?Item=41721&KEYCODE=FROOGLE

I bought mine from Utrect because it was half the price of Dick Blick. Just make sure you get one that accepts a drawing board as well as canvas. Oh, and it's a plus if you can sit or stand...

TJ

Brenda

01-28-2006, 10:40 AM

Oh, TOni!!!! You've started on baby doll's portrait!!! Post it, ya gotta post it! And look at her helping. Such a sweetie.

Toni

01-28-2006, 11:20 AM

Oh, TOni!!!! You've started on baby doll's portrait!!! Post it, ya gotta post it! And look at her helping. Such a sweetie.

I will Brenda when i get the underpainting done...

:D

Jeanne

01-28-2006, 12:08 PM

Brenda, Does the easle that you have adjust for sitting or standing to work?

Although Dick Blick's may be more expensive I happen to have a gift certificate for them from Christmas. Although I've put off ordering from there so far this year (savoring all the possibilities :rolleyes: ) a stable work place would be really nice! For some reason everyone always wants to eat at the kitchen table. :D

We have a perfectly good workroom: shelves, supplies, two drawing tables, two computers but, for some reason I rarely can find room for my projects! My son, who is a senior is in the AP art program at school and seems to always have a new elaborate project going.

Shhhh... i'm kinda looking forward to the college years!

Toni - She's so cute! both the live and the pencil version, can't wait to see the wip here!

Brenda

01-28-2006, 04:40 PM

Yes, it does adjust. Sometimes I sit down but mainly I stand. I prefer it a bit more than the sitting. It moves up and down easily.

Don't forget there seems to be a bit of a learning/adjustment time. I just hated it the first three or four times I used it. Wouldn't do without it now.

christine

01-28-2006, 06:10 PM

Toni,

That is a sweet photo -- perhaps your grandchild will be picking up the CP's as well down the road from this experience? ;) She looks very engaged!

glo

01-28-2006, 10:22 PM

Thanks Brenda, Toni, and Christine,

I've looked at all and now for the big decision......HMMMMMMMM Christine I love the table idea with side area space. I seem to spread out so much when I'm working. I was thinking easel but I'm wondering if my drawing table can be modified. Yes please send the plans if he finds them. I so enjoy seeing how everyone works. Toni what a cutie pie, you must be so in love with her. Although I can't imagine working with my granddaughter on my lap. Maybe when I'm more experienced.

Brenda thanks for the site. Y' all have been so helpful.

Gloria