summer-foal - testing techniques

[lene]

Hi
this Summer-foal is a drawing where I was testing new techniques.
I'm having ambivalent feelings about the result:
I wanted to try out graisille and started with grey cp's. I simply couldn't finish that :eek: - I then changed the grey colors with dark colors like Dark Umber and Indigo. When applying the local colors I found these colors where very dark to cover. I think next time trying the graisille I'll make an under-drawing with graphite. Did any of you try ?
Also this drawing has no background, this I have done before in graphite but not in colorpencils. I still found I have more succes with that in graphite.
The photo I took didn't have the full length of his legs, it looks okay in photo but I cannot decide if it disturbs me in the drawing :confused:
... and grass .... I love nature but at same time those green colors can be difficult to athieve looking natural - any c & c welcome

[Arlene]

why not try doing an underpainting using complementary colors?

[lene]

Hi Arlene

Appreciate your suggestion, but:

I have done the colorwheel from the Helpful Tech. Thread to get aquainted with the effects of (amongst others) complimentary colors. It is a great tool to have as reference. :)
When working in cp (in the colorwheel where I tested it ) - I found the affect of green under red (and the foal being bay-horse) I can see the green shining too much through. That is why I chose dark brown + blue, it didn't look so "strange" to me. (dark brown being a darker of local colors in this horse, and blue I think of as a good "shadow"color).
The foal being light-brown/orange-red in colors I would not excactly know what color to choose as underpainting .... The brown colors being territere what would be the choise of complimentary ??? As you can read, the territere/brown/earthcolors confuses me in this matter :confused:
... BTW the value-scale lesson in same thread as Colorwheel is it supposed to be:
light hue + white and then starting underpainting with complimentary untill black under in the last square ?
Or is the real hue supposed to be applied with greater pressure in some squares after hue + white ?

[Belinda]

hi lene,

I have done the complimentary underpainting as arlene has suggested on a few paintings i am still very much learning at this technique but i find the colours you can get with this method are much richer and cleaner than with using greys etc.

Especially when starting out i think one of the tricks is to use little experiment patches on the sides of your paper for the correct colours to use, i have found that if i am using a particular red brown a lighter or dark green or different green hue in the underpainting can make a big difference to the end colour (you will see the colour you want when you do it as the green will dissolve and the redy brown will really come through and shine).

I am sure arlene or someone else who is better with colour will be able to give you a more precise explanation as to why what colours work etc... but my advice is to test it out first before you commit it to the drawing, you will learn as the time goes on and i think you would be quite pleased with the results :)

[lene]

Hi Belinda
using a lighter green and heavier covering color to dissolve the green could be the answer as you suggest :blushing: :)
I know - practise is always needed - but doing animals that often are in the brown-category - I have some trouble figuring out the right complementary if doing underpainting ....

[Arlene]

Hi Arlene

Appreciate your suggestion, but:

I have done the colorwheel from the Helpful Tech. Thread to get aquainted with the effects of (amongst others) complimentary colors. It is a great tool to have as reference. :)
When working in cp (in the colorwheel where I tested it ) - I found the affect of green under red (and the foal being bay-horse) I can see the green shining too much through. That is why I chose dark brown + blue, it didn't look so "strange" to me. (dark brown being a darker of local colors in this horse, and blue I think of as a good "shadow"color).
The foal being light-brown/orange-red in colors I would not excactly know what color to choose as underpainting .... The brown colors being territere what would be the choise of complimentary ??? As you can read, the territere/brown/earthcolors confuses me in this matter :confused:
... BTW the value-scale lesson in same thread as Colorwheel is it supposed to be:
light hue + white and then starting underpainting with complimentary untill black under in the last square ?
Or is the real hue supposed to be applied with greater pressure in some squares after hue + white ?

Ok it also depends on how many layers you put down. It does take a several layers to cover over the green. But I may have chosen the indigo done with a lighter touch and then for lighter areas slate gray. with earthtones you have to determine which color it's closer to...then do the opposite. and yes, it can be confusing. (don't tell anyone, but I get confused sometimes. :confused: )

As for your question on hue, never use more pressure...build up layers slowly...not black under last sq. but mostly the complement with a touch of the hue on top.

[lene]

Hi
Arlene, I will take this info with me till my next pieces, I see the point in determing which hue in the brown is most presented. And I'm sure as you say a lighter touch with the indigo (and dark brown) would have been better. Well, we are here to learn to improve :p :)
Okay, a new value-scale most be on my list then ;)

[Arlene]

i sent you a pm. :)

[CarrieLLewis]

Lene,

The first time I did a horse with the underpainting technique, I chose a green, too, because the horse was chestnut and green was the natural complement to that red-orange coat color.

Since then, I have tried several different colors for the underpainting stage on bays, chestnuts and palominos. Here is what has been working for me:

For palominos, a light purple is the absolute best. I usually do an overall underpainting with lavender (clay rose or some similar color would also work) then punch up shadows with a darker purple. Then you can layer the golds, red-golds and red-browns over that and get a great palomino color.

For darker red bays, I use blues. The darker the bay, the darker the blue I can use.

For chestnuts, a lighter blue or a blue violet.

Most of the time, regardless of the color of the horse (unless it's black or white ... or black-and-white! :D ), I use a minimum of two colors. The lighter color is used to block in all but the lightest highlights. I work up as full a range of values with that light color as possible, then extend the range further by layering a darker shade of the same color into the darker mid-tones and the shadows.

The key, as far as I've been able to determine, is to keep the layers of the underpainting light, light, light! Very light pressure to build the underpainting with a series of even color applications.

You can then layer local colors over that in the same manner to create the look you want.

It's a challenging technique to learn and I sometimes still find myself wanting to go straight for the color, but the end results on this method far exceed the end results on any other method I've tried.

You know, now that I think about it, I did a series of three paintings of chestnut horses all at about the same time. They all turned out fairly well, but not in the ways I had anticipated. If you are interested, I will post them as soon as I get a chance so you can the struggles I had with the technique and the colors I used for the underpainting. You will also be able to see what adjustments were made to get a good end result.

[Arlene]

please do carrie...you were who i was thinking of regarding the horses.

[lene]

Hi
Carrie - thank you so much :) :clap: I would love to see your examples to see the difference you can achieve :clap:

Arlene - got your PM (and send a reply). Thank you - I found the thread from Carrie and bookmarked :) Now Carrie made this post for people to learn from also - superb :bye1:

[Feathers]

I have no comment other than to say that I'm finding all comments on complementart graisaille most helpful. It's a new technique to me. Thanks to all.-Anna.

[Jazz]

I think you have done a lovely job capturing the foal Lene :) ,

I too have been learning about using a comlementary Grisaille -my first ever full cp painting was done using a complementary Grisaille and I was depicting a Water Lily with Lily pads. My pads slowly got better and the first one was a reddy green, LOL until I learnt how to build up my local colour layers to cover the complement.

Just remember to use lots of light layers and once you have it covered then you can increase the pressure on your subsequent layers. But the method works beautifully once you get the hang of it and the results are much richer and the colours also have more depth I have found.

Anyway, just wanted to tell you that I think your foal is lovely and really not a bad start in using a Grisaille :) .

Huge hugs,


ALI

[lene]

jazz - thanks for comment and also helpful tip (the very light layering) - right now I was trying again a graisille underpainting and more or less gave up. Did some small tests, didn't look nice either :confused:
I tried 3 seperate colors for underpainting; indigoblue, green and purple and layered localcolors upon (orange/red fur) :(
Then problem could be that I layer too much/hard with local colors at first :eek:

[eysha]

ANOTHER INTERESTING THREAD.
Carrie, yes please post what you have, and soon.
I am so pleased i am not the only one confused by this underpainting with complements
I will persivere, but - oh my aching head. lol.

[sassybird]

I CLEPED color theory in college, but to tell the truth I have never used a color wheel. I go by instinct. I think that Arlene has given you some good advice, and I am always learning from her.

[ArtWench]

Lene~

First let me say that you have done a beautiful job on the foal. I wouldn't change anything with the horse itself.

To answer the question regarding a graphite grisaelle (sp?), I believe that you will find the CP won't stick to the graphite too well. I stopped doing my initial sketches in graphite when I knew I was going to be covering with CP layers because I didn't have real good results. Now I use the erasable CPs (can't remember what they are called).

Also, I agree with you about the background. I usually do not do a background on my graphite portraits because the clients prefer them that way; however, I didn't like the effect of the CPs without a background of some sort. So, now I follow Arlene's advice and plan the background first unless I am designing a logo or something that requires a lot of negative space.

As for grass... Yeah, grass is difficult and I don't think I have ever really mastered it; however, I do tend to have more luck when I use a lot of different colors and not just green. This is one place where I think using the complimentary color will actually help give the grass depth. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/PaintPub/Smileys/purplegrin.jpg

[CarrieLLewis]

eysha,

I certainly understand the aching head! Oh boy!

It helps me to think of the underpainting as a half tone painting, not the first stage in a full-color painting. If I think of the underpainting as a painting that is going to be complete with the colors I'm using, I'm much more careful about details and value ranges and how I layer the color onto the paper in the early stages.

I used to try to hurry through the underpainting to get to the 'good part' (the color :p ), until I started following Arlene's works-in-progress very closely. What I discovered was that she does a complete painting before ever getting to the color. If she did an underpainting and decided to frame it, no one would ever know but what she intended to do that.

So that's what I've done. The work I've posted so far doesn't show that, I know, because I've developed that part of the technique since then and after reading up on Vermeer, after whom I pattern my oil painting techniques.

The bottom line is that it really does take a lot of layers and a lot of time, but when you get it right, wow! :clap:

[lene]

:cool: Hi
thanks for your last comments.
I really appreciate all the good advice and tips from everybody :) , I know it is something I will have to practice again and again to "get the grip" of it.
So .... me being rather impatient at times, I just have to keep trying.... also, getting the information .. well .. it sounds not that difficult .. I'm getting the picture of complementary colors (thanks for the colorwheel lesson in this site Arlene).... but there is more to it than that .. and one very important thing it seems .. would be how much pressure you use with the cp's in both underpainting + local colors.